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How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
+5
leopold
ManCityMan
shakencity
Moonchester
Topdawg
9 posters
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How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39224757
Joe Hart: I want to say it was really bad but it wasn't because I saw it coming.
SB: From the moment Guardiola walked through the door?
JH: No but you just pick up vibes and it certainly wasn't a surprise to me. It was something that I wanted to change and felt I was more than capable of changing but to get results he needed to have a team he felt comfortable with and a team he wanted.
I didn't fall into that category and that's no problem. I'd have loved to have stayed and fought and shown what I can do but I don't have that time. You don't have that time to do it - especially as a goalkeeper. You can't come off the bench for 10 minutes and prove your worth - it's either you're in or you're out.
I'm up for a fight, I'll fight my corner all day but if you're not going to win then there is no point in fighting, especially someone as powerful as that at Manchester City.
I know it's nothing personal on me, he's not that kind of guy.
SB: Do you respect his honesty?
JH: Yes of course. He did what he had to do, he did what he felt was right. He didn't do it to ruin my life, he did it because he thought that was what was right for him to win as a manager. So I had to look elsewhere and here I am.
SB: What did you say when your agent said Torino were interested?
JH: I said, 'Look into it.' I didn't have many options - things happened very late with Manchester City. For a goalkeeper that's difficult, everyone is pretty settled with goalkeepers, it's an early bit of business and there is only one spot.
My name wasn't necessarily out in the transfer market because people probably presumed that I would be at Manchester City - like I did. But I wasn't going to play at Manchester City, that was pretty obvious - I was third, if not fourth choice at the time so I wanted to play football and Torino gave me the opportunity and I just thought, 'I'm going to go for it.'
SB: There will be Manchester City fans thinking, 'Will you ever play for our team again?'
JH: I'd say I'm pretty much surplus to requirements at my parent club at the moment.
SB: Do you see that changing?
JH: Not really. I've got to be realistic. I love that club and I've always said that as long as they wanted me, I would be there.
But I was always cautious when I said that because I'm aware that at the big, big clubs stuff can change quickly as can opinions and people in charge. Not everyone is going to like you, not everyone is going to want to play you and that's the business side of it, which I've grown into and I'm certainly not going to take personally.
I want to play football, I love to play football so if that opportunity is not going to be given there then I'm going to have to look elsewhere and may have to make somewhere else my home.
SB: Where you at in terms of a transfer at the moment?
JH: It's frustrating to see my name thrown around so much when I'm just trying to get on with what I'm doing for now and then whatever needs to be taken care of will hopefully be taken care of one way or another.
I've still got a parent club that I need to respect and I need to work with. I understand that's the football business now, everyone has got an opinion, a small comment can be used in an article. I don't know where my future lies - I've certainly had no communication with anyone.
The best thing I can do is work hard, be ready to train every day, do my best for Torino, do my best when I represent my country and then hopefully the rest will take care of itself.
SB: How important is it for you to be playing regular football next season to keep your position as England goalkeeper?
JH: [England boss] Gareth Southgate is not the kind of guy to say, 'You need to be doing this or that or you're out.' He's such a positive, interesting person. He came out to see me out here, which was good of him, just for an afternoon, just to check in and he wants what's best for the country. The only way I can be a part of that is if I'm playing well, playing regularly and improving.
We've got some really good, strong English keepers at the moment. I'd like to think we're pushing each other and if my levels drop then I'm gone and I understand that. I don't need any threats, I know how the game works as I've been a part of it for a while now.
SB: As a goalkeeper do you have to wait for someone to leave a club for a place to go?
JH: Yes, unfortunately. Especially the top teams because every top team has got at least one top keeper. You need people to move, managers to change, you need something to happen for something to happen. You can't just charge in somewhere.
SB: Would returning to the Premier League be top of your wish list?
JH: I'm open. I love the Premier League, I absolutely love Premier League games. Removing myself a footballer, I watch the Premier League. It's a great league, fantastic football is played in it.
I know it really well but I wouldn't say it was top of my wishlist. Top of my wishlist is to play for a club that wants me to be their goalkeeper.
Hart on Man City, England and the future
Match of the Day commentator Steve Bower: How difficult was it to discover Pep Guardiola didn't want to make you number one and you would have to go somewhere else?Joe Hart: I want to say it was really bad but it wasn't because I saw it coming.
SB: From the moment Guardiola walked through the door?
JH: No but you just pick up vibes and it certainly wasn't a surprise to me. It was something that I wanted to change and felt I was more than capable of changing but to get results he needed to have a team he felt comfortable with and a team he wanted.
I didn't fall into that category and that's no problem. I'd have loved to have stayed and fought and shown what I can do but I don't have that time. You don't have that time to do it - especially as a goalkeeper. You can't come off the bench for 10 minutes and prove your worth - it's either you're in or you're out.
I'm up for a fight, I'll fight my corner all day but if you're not going to win then there is no point in fighting, especially someone as powerful as that at Manchester City.
I know it's nothing personal on me, he's not that kind of guy.
SB: Do you respect his honesty?
JH: Yes of course. He did what he had to do, he did what he felt was right. He didn't do it to ruin my life, he did it because he thought that was what was right for him to win as a manager. So I had to look elsewhere and here I am.
SB: What did you say when your agent said Torino were interested?
JH: I said, 'Look into it.' I didn't have many options - things happened very late with Manchester City. For a goalkeeper that's difficult, everyone is pretty settled with goalkeepers, it's an early bit of business and there is only one spot.
My name wasn't necessarily out in the transfer market because people probably presumed that I would be at Manchester City - like I did. But I wasn't going to play at Manchester City, that was pretty obvious - I was third, if not fourth choice at the time so I wanted to play football and Torino gave me the opportunity and I just thought, 'I'm going to go for it.'
SB: There will be Manchester City fans thinking, 'Will you ever play for our team again?'
JH: I'd say I'm pretty much surplus to requirements at my parent club at the moment.
SB: Do you see that changing?
JH: Not really. I've got to be realistic. I love that club and I've always said that as long as they wanted me, I would be there.
But I was always cautious when I said that because I'm aware that at the big, big clubs stuff can change quickly as can opinions and people in charge. Not everyone is going to like you, not everyone is going to want to play you and that's the business side of it, which I've grown into and I'm certainly not going to take personally.
I want to play football, I love to play football so if that opportunity is not going to be given there then I'm going to have to look elsewhere and may have to make somewhere else my home.
SB: Where you at in terms of a transfer at the moment?
JH: It's frustrating to see my name thrown around so much when I'm just trying to get on with what I'm doing for now and then whatever needs to be taken care of will hopefully be taken care of one way or another.
I've still got a parent club that I need to respect and I need to work with. I understand that's the football business now, everyone has got an opinion, a small comment can be used in an article. I don't know where my future lies - I've certainly had no communication with anyone.
The best thing I can do is work hard, be ready to train every day, do my best for Torino, do my best when I represent my country and then hopefully the rest will take care of itself.
SB: How important is it for you to be playing regular football next season to keep your position as England goalkeeper?
JH: [England boss] Gareth Southgate is not the kind of guy to say, 'You need to be doing this or that or you're out.' He's such a positive, interesting person. He came out to see me out here, which was good of him, just for an afternoon, just to check in and he wants what's best for the country. The only way I can be a part of that is if I'm playing well, playing regularly and improving.
We've got some really good, strong English keepers at the moment. I'd like to think we're pushing each other and if my levels drop then I'm gone and I understand that. I don't need any threats, I know how the game works as I've been a part of it for a while now.
SB: As a goalkeeper do you have to wait for someone to leave a club for a place to go?
JH: Yes, unfortunately. Especially the top teams because every top team has got at least one top keeper. You need people to move, managers to change, you need something to happen for something to happen. You can't just charge in somewhere.
SB: Would returning to the Premier League be top of your wish list?
JH: I'm open. I love the Premier League, I absolutely love Premier League games. Removing myself a footballer, I watch the Premier League. It's a great league, fantastic football is played in it.
I know it really well but I wouldn't say it was top of my wishlist. Top of my wishlist is to play for a club that wants me to be their goalkeeper.
Topdawg- Legend
- Posts : 26185
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Is that any clearer now???
Topdawg- Legend
- Posts : 26185
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
No, in fact it's even more confusing. He contradicts himself a number of times.
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
so come back in the close season, train hard at City and give Pep a decision to make...?
Moonchester- Key Player
- Posts : 2600
Age : 41
Location : At work, usually
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Pep doesn't want him at the club....end of. There is no way on God's green earth Peps going to admit he fucked up by taking him back.
How he ever thought Clownio was a better keeper to this day still baffles me.
How he ever thought Clownio was a better keeper to this day still baffles me.
shakencity- Cult Hero
- Posts : 8734
Age : 53
Location : Bury
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Joe doesn't see his future there if he considers himself 3rd or 4th choice. Did Pep actually tell him that or is Joe guessing?
It's a pile of sticking shit really. I wish Pep would just come out and tell us the truth and get it over with. It's been bubbling away for 6 months now and will never really go away.
We've got to accept that Joe will just sign for Torino or move to another club. He aint coming back
It's a pile of sticking shit really. I wish Pep would just come out and tell us the truth and get it over with. It's been bubbling away for 6 months now and will never really go away.
We've got to accept that Joe will just sign for Torino or move to another club. He aint coming back
Topdawg- Legend
- Posts : 26185
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Pep's not man enough to say he got it wrong.
Topdawg- Legend
- Posts : 26185
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
What utter guff Dawg.
Pep has come out several times and said he told Joe to stay and fight for his place. At no point did Joe Hart come back with "he said I would be 3rd or 4th" nor has Pep ever said anything, nor anyone else at the club.
From the very 1st question, Joe Hart had preconceived ideas about what was going to happen to him. You have to ask yourself two questions:
1. Why have preconceived ideas and what are they?
2. Did you really want to stay and fight or did you give up and didn't want your flaws exposed?
Sounds like he'd given up without trying.
He says he respects Pep's honesty, so clearly Pep isn't lying. He never once said I was going to be 3rd or 4th choice. He was No.1 ahead of Willy, so why would he be suddenly relegated to 3rd or 4th? It doesn't make sense to think that way. Bravo was brought in - which would naturally make him No.2 - that's what he didn't like.
This reporter asked some shit questions that clarify nothing, nor did he ask for clarification in his answer.
Another example; he talks about Southgate not being someone he tells you what you need to do....then goes on to say if I'm not playing I won't get in the team.
Think of 5 questions you could have asked to get to the truth of what happened.
Pep has come out several times and said he told Joe to stay and fight for his place. At no point did Joe Hart come back with "he said I would be 3rd or 4th" nor has Pep ever said anything, nor anyone else at the club.
From the very 1st question, Joe Hart had preconceived ideas about what was going to happen to him. You have to ask yourself two questions:
1. Why have preconceived ideas and what are they?
2. Did you really want to stay and fight or did you give up and didn't want your flaws exposed?
Sounds like he'd given up without trying.
He says he respects Pep's honesty, so clearly Pep isn't lying. He never once said I was going to be 3rd or 4th choice. He was No.1 ahead of Willy, so why would he be suddenly relegated to 3rd or 4th? It doesn't make sense to think that way. Bravo was brought in - which would naturally make him No.2 - that's what he didn't like.
This reporter asked some shit questions that clarify nothing, nor did he ask for clarification in his answer.
Another example; he talks about Southgate not being someone he tells you what you need to do....then goes on to say if I'm not playing I won't get in the team.
Think of 5 questions you could have asked to get to the truth of what happened.
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Joe isn't very clear with what he has said, that's obvious.
But Pep got his man in, dropped Joe and has now dropped his man. Will he wait until Bravo has left the club before he admits he got it wrong?
Was Pep 'forcing' Joe out of the club? He can say stay and fight as much as he wants, but the player has to believe what he says for it to be worth it. Joe's at the age when he feels he needs to be playing for his own fullfilment as well as keeping his position with England.
There's certainly more to this than meets the eye.
But Pep got his man in, dropped Joe and has now dropped his man. Will he wait until Bravo has left the club before he admits he got it wrong?
Was Pep 'forcing' Joe out of the club? He can say stay and fight as much as he wants, but the player has to believe what he says for it to be worth it. Joe's at the age when he feels he needs to be playing for his own fullfilment as well as keeping his position with England.
There's certainly more to this than meets the eye.
Topdawg- Legend
- Posts : 26185
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
5 questions:
1. Did Pep tell you you'd be 3rd or 4th choice, because in theory, you'd have to be behind Angus Gunn if you are 4th?
2. Did Pep tell you to stay and fight for your place?
3. If so, why didn't you fight for your place - and was it because of playing in some friendlies for England?
4. Do you think if you'd have stayed and fought for your place, you'd now be in ahead of Bravo, just like Willy is?
5. What's the difference between you, Willy and Bravo for you not to stay and fight for your place?
These are the questions that people want to know, because it's all that people ever go on about, even though we all know he won't be coming back. What next - Wilf Bony??
1. Did Pep tell you you'd be 3rd or 4th choice, because in theory, you'd have to be behind Angus Gunn if you are 4th?
2. Did Pep tell you to stay and fight for your place?
3. If so, why didn't you fight for your place - and was it because of playing in some friendlies for England?
4. Do you think if you'd have stayed and fought for your place, you'd now be in ahead of Bravo, just like Willy is?
5. What's the difference between you, Willy and Bravo for you not to stay and fight for your place?
These are the questions that people want to know, because it's all that people ever go on about, even though we all know he won't be coming back. What next - Wilf Bony??
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
all the fight for your place malarkey is utter tosh..
Joe needed Pep to come in and say you are my number one. if he didn't do that, Joe by rights needed to find a club where he was...
Joe needed Pep to come in and say you are my number one. if he didn't do that, Joe by rights needed to find a club where he was...
Moonchester- Key Player
- Posts : 2600
Age : 41
Location : At work, usually
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
We'd just like to know something nearer the truth. They both respect each other. They both think each other is being honest etc. but I'd like to know, honestly, why Joe was dropped and why he didn't feel it was worth it to fight for his place.
Joe must surely know he's a far superior keeper than Clownio or Big Willy so what was the so obvious reason, to him, that he felt he had no chance?
Joe must surely know he's a far superior keeper than Clownio or Big Willy so what was the so obvious reason, to him, that he felt he had no chance?
Topdawg- Legend
- Posts : 26185
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Who has Pep bought (or we believe he had some hand in buying)?
Nolito - fail
Bravo - fail
Sanê - good so far
Jesus - good so far
Gundogan - good so far
Sterling - good so far
Kev - good so far
It seems that the older you are, the more likely you are to fail with Pep. Is he just not good enough at judging older players???
Nolito - fail
Bravo - fail
Sanê - good so far
Jesus - good so far
Gundogan - good so far
Sterling - good so far
Kev - good so far
It seems that the older you are, the more likely you are to fail with Pep. Is he just not good enough at judging older players???
Topdawg- Legend
- Posts : 26185
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Moonchester wrote:all the fight for your place malarkey is utter tosh..
Joe needed Pep to come in and say you are my number one. if he didn't do that, Joe by rights needed to find a club where he was...
But Pep didn't do that to ANYONE at the club....so why is Joe Hart so special?
In fact, he pretty much went the opposite way and told EVERYONE at the club that they are being given a chance to prove themselves (which he has done)....Kolorov, Zaba, Sagna, Vinny, Otamendi, Fernando, Navas, Delph to name a few. It would have been easy to come in and just replace the one's he knows aren't at the top of the 'keep' list.....Kolorov being a prime example.
So again, I can't imagine him coming in and going "right, you'll all be given a chance to prove your worth to the shirt, except for you Joe Hart"...also, he wouldn't say all that but say "but Joe, you're going to be my number one for certain".....
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Topdawg wrote:Who has Pep bought (or we believe he had some hand in buying)?
Nolito - fail
Bravo - fail
Sanê - good so far
Jesus - good so far
Gundogan - good so far
Sterling - good so far
Kev - good so far
It seems that the older you are, the more likely you are to fail with Pep. Is he just not good enough at judging older players???
But that argument is a non-starter. Look at the likes of Sagna, Kolorov, TLMLF, Willy even....getting more out of Aguero, Fernandinho probably our best player up to January.
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Sorry Andy, completely disagree.
When Pep first came in he made it very clear he was after a new keeper, we all knew that Joes future was away from City. Joe was NEVER given the chance to be the No1, or he'd have started and worked on his distribution problems.
Peps coming out saying he wanted Joe to stay and fight for his place is just PR bullocks to keep the fans on his side.
As far as I'm concerned, Joe did the right thing by going to Torino...and if I were him, once I'd engineer a move away (at the end if the season) I'll tell Pep to his face he's a complete prick.
When Pep first came in he made it very clear he was after a new keeper, we all knew that Joes future was away from City. Joe was NEVER given the chance to be the No1, or he'd have started and worked on his distribution problems.
Peps coming out saying he wanted Joe to stay and fight for his place is just PR bullocks to keep the fans on his side.
As far as I'm concerned, Joe did the right thing by going to Torino...and if I were him, once I'd engineer a move away (at the end if the season) I'll tell Pep to his face he's a complete prick.
shakencity- Cult Hero
- Posts : 8734
Age : 53
Location : Bury
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
yes, Joe said, he can't fight for a place as keepers don't get to come off the bench and impress...
as soon as Pep brougth in Bravo it was a no win situation(so no point fighting if you can't win)
as soon as Pep brougth in Bravo it was a no win situation(so no point fighting if you can't win)
Moonchester- Key Player
- Posts : 2600
Age : 41
Location : At work, usually
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
shakencity wrote:Sorry Andy, completely disagree.
When Pep first came in he made it very clear he was after a new keeper, we all knew that Joes future was away from City. Joe was NEVER given the chance to be the No1, or he'd have started and worked on his distribution problems.
Peps coming out saying he wanted Joe to stay and fight for his place is just PR bullocks to keep the fans on his side.
As far as I'm concerned, Joe did the right thing by going to Torino...and if I were him, once I'd engineer a move away (at the end if the season) I'll tell Pep to his face he's a complete prick.
Wow...Pep's a prick because he got rid of one player - a player lots of people on here were complaining about last year???
What you're saying Den, is that we'd be in a far better position than we are in, IF Joe Hart would have stayed???
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
You know my thoughts on Bravo Blue. Yes I do believe we would be a fair few points better off had joe been between the sticks. Definitely in a better position to be challenging Chelsea. Joe has definitely gone so hopefully Neuer in the summer.
skyblueoz- Key Player
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Age : 64
Location : Perth Western Australia
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
skyblueoz wrote:You know my thoughts on Bravo Blue. Yes I do believe we would be a fair few points better off had joe been between the sticks. Definitely in a better position to be challenging Chelsea. Joe has definitely gone so hopefully Neuer in the summer.
What goals has Bravo conceded that have cost us points? I mean mistakes he's made that have cost us points?
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
If Pep is bringing in an experienced keeper, and keeping Wully, then Joe knows his place isn't up from grabs. It's been grabbed already. Pep isn't bringing a 33 yo from Barca to be number 2 or 3.
As soon as Gundogan was fit, he was in the team regardless whether it upset the balance trying to squeeze him, Fernandinho, KdB, Silva in the same starting XI.
Nolito came and was quickly in the squad, coming off the bench and even starting games. I think you've described him as the Spanish Robbie Savage...
SO we can see that Pep's men have been given more than a fair chance and that's how you would expect it to be.
There are 4,5 or even 6 MF places available so, if your are a MF, you still have a chance. There are 3 or 4 defenders playing each game so, if you re a defender, you've got the chance. There are 2,3 attackers playing so, if you are an attacker, you;ve got a chance.
We only ever play with one goalie in the team so, if you're not number one, you need severe under performance by the number one, injury or suspension to even figure.
If Pep is bring his own man in, you can bet your bottom dollar that he's going to be the number 1.
As soon as Gundogan was fit, he was in the team regardless whether it upset the balance trying to squeeze him, Fernandinho, KdB, Silva in the same starting XI.
Nolito came and was quickly in the squad, coming off the bench and even starting games. I think you've described him as the Spanish Robbie Savage...
SO we can see that Pep's men have been given more than a fair chance and that's how you would expect it to be.
There are 4,5 or even 6 MF places available so, if your are a MF, you still have a chance. There are 3 or 4 defenders playing each game so, if you re a defender, you've got the chance. There are 2,3 attackers playing so, if you are an attacker, you;ve got a chance.
We only ever play with one goalie in the team so, if you're not number one, you need severe under performance by the number one, injury or suspension to even figure.
If Pep is bring his own man in, you can bet your bottom dollar that he's going to be the number 1.
Topdawg- Legend
- Posts : 26185
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
And is he the number 1 now?
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Joe was dropped by Pellegrini for Pants. Did he throw his toys out of the pram then and decide "that's it, I'm off"?
And why was he dropped in the first place?
And why was he dropped in the first place?
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Good debate though...
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
bluey, less aggression to us here.. his post was "if he was Joe he would tell Pep".. at the end of the season when all is done and dusted..
we all know Joes time was up when Bravo was signed, no matter how they try and dress it up, the decision was made.
Yes Bravo cost us major points, against Chelsea, Joe would have saved all their shots in a game we should have had buried at the other end anyways.
we all know Joes time was up when Bravo was signed, no matter how they try and dress it up, the decision was made.
Yes Bravo cost us major points, against Chelsea, Joe would have saved all their shots in a game we should have had buried at the other end anyways.
Moonchester- Key Player
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Age : 41
Location : At work, usually
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
He's not number one now, but it's taken several months of distinctly below average performances for him to be dropped.
Topdawg- Legend
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Same way Nolito is lucky to even be on the bench nowadays.
Topdawg- Legend
- Posts : 26185
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
And still Joe can't really say what he feels as he's a City player. He needs City to let him go for a reasonable fee (rumoured to be £10M-£15M which is a fucking joke seeing as he's nearing his prime).
Topdawg- Legend
- Posts : 26185
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Moonchester wrote:bluey, less aggression to us here.. his post was "if he was Joe he would tell Pep".. at the end of the season when all is done and dusted..
we all know Joes time was up when Bravo was signed, no matter how they try and dress it up, the decision was made.
Yes Bravo cost us major points, against Chelsea, Joe would have saved all their shots in a game we should have had buried at the other end anyways.
Aggression? What are you on about? How have I been aggressive? I didn't swear, nor did I encourage someone to call Pep a prick....
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Moonchester wrote:bluey, less aggression to us here.. his post was "if he was Joe he would tell Pep".. at the end of the season when all is done and dusted..
we all know Joes time was up when Bravo was signed, no matter how they try and dress it up, the decision was made.
Yes Bravo cost us major points, against Chelsea, Joe would have saved all their shots in a game we should have had buried at the other end anyways.
Joe would have saved all of their shots? You mean he would have saved their first one from Costs for 8 yards out?
The 2nd one - happy to concede he should have done better.
3rd one? Not sure even Joe would have saved that.
blueboy- Legend
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Thanks Moon for clarifying what I said.blueboy wrote:shakencity wrote:Sorry Andy, completely disagree.
When Pep first came in he made it very clear he was after a new keeper, we all knew that Joes future was away from City. Joe was NEVER given the chance to be the No1, or he'd have started and worked on his distribution problems.
Peps coming out saying he wanted Joe to stay and fight for his place is just PR bullocks to keep the fans on his side.
As far as I'm concerned, Joe did the right thing by going to Torino...and if I were him, once I'd engineer a move away (at the end if the season) I'll tell Pep to his face he's a complete prick.
Wow...Pep's a prick because he got rid of one player - a player lots of people on here were complaining about last year???
What you're saying Den, is that we'd be in a far better position than we are in, IF Joe Hart would have stayed???
Yes I do Andy...I think Clownio has been a let down from the start. How could signing Barcas 2nd choice 33yr old keeper have ever been an improvement on what we already had?
Before he got dropped, did the stats not prove he was the worst keeper in the PL too?
shakencity- Cult Hero
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
i just thought you were being overly cantankerous (itching for a fight, not actually starting one).
The stats are always subjective, I've heard about the survey that shows shots that "could and should" have been saved..
that was a very damning report on bravo.
granted, if you play in goal for a bottom club you are going to get peppered with shots, at the top end, it's less shots, but you still have to save the ones that are savable.
The stats are always subjective, I've heard about the survey that shows shots that "could and should" have been saved..
that was a very damning report on bravo.
granted, if you play in goal for a bottom club you are going to get peppered with shots, at the top end, it's less shots, but you still have to save the ones that are savable.
Moonchester- Key Player
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
shakencity wrote:Thanks Moon for clarifying what I said.blueboy wrote:shakencity wrote:Sorry Andy, completely disagree.
When Pep first came in he made it very clear he was after a new keeper, we all knew that Joes future was away from City. Joe was NEVER given the chance to be the No1, or he'd have started and worked on his distribution problems.
Peps coming out saying he wanted Joe to stay and fight for his place is just PR bullocks to keep the fans on his side.
As far as I'm concerned, Joe did the right thing by going to Torino...and if I were him, once I'd engineer a move away (at the end if the season) I'll tell Pep to his face he's a complete prick.
Wow...Pep's a prick because he got rid of one player - a player lots of people on here were complaining about last year???
What you're saying Den, is that we'd be in a far better position than we are in, IF Joe Hart would have stayed???
Yes I do Andy...I think Clownio has been a let down from the start. How could signing Barcas 2nd choice 33yr old keeper have ever been an improvement on what we already had?
Before he got dropped, did the stats not prove he was the worst keeper in the PL too?
Completely agree with you Den - you're missing my point. I'm certainly not sticking up for Bravo in respect of him over Joe...
You said this:
Before he got dropped, did the stats not prove he was the worst keeper in the PL too?
Therefore, my point was that if Joe would have stayed, he may have been in the team now. He may have proved his point to Pep and developed his kicking skills, which we all know he needed to do, and show that he could combine both his brilliant shot-stopping with good ball distribution. Look at Willy's distribution...his has massively improved under Pep....his balls out against Stoke were excellent.
And by the way - I'm not itching for a fight as Moon suggested nor am I being cantankerous...I'm just putting an opinion across. As mentioned before, what would be the point of a forum if we put a point across and someone disagrees with it - to just log out, for fear of having a different opinion?
It's all good debate as I said earlier.
blueboy- Legend
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Pep has come into every club and made a statement removing an experienced player. Seems to be his "thing" and in our case Little Joe was that person.
I didn't like it at the time, and even with shit kicking and Joe in goal we would be a lot closer to the Chavs than we are now, but it's not the end of the world.
I like Pep, I trust him, it's his first season, and I think he will be with us for a lot longer than 3 years because he now has something to prove.
But he must stop taking games for granted .......
I didn't like it at the time, and even with shit kicking and Joe in goal we would be a lot closer to the Chavs than we are now, but it's not the end of the world.
I like Pep, I trust him, it's his first season, and I think he will be with us for a lot longer than 3 years because he now has something to prove.
But he must stop taking games for granted .......
Guest- Guest
Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
blisteringblue wrote:Pep has come into every club and made a statement removing an experienced player. Seems to be his "thing" and in our case Little Joe was that person.
I didn't like it at the time, and even with shit kicking and Joe in goal we would be a lot closer to the Chavs than we are now, but it's not the end of the world.
I like Pep, I trust him, it's his first season, and I think he will be with us for a lot longer than 3 years because he now has something to prove.
But he must stop taking games for granted .......
Maybe that's what he did BB. Guess we'll find out in time if that's the reason. Maybe Joe wasn't as well liked by the players?? Who knows.
blueboy- Legend
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
maybe Pep was envious of his head and shoulders sponsorship.. )
Moonchester- Key Player
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Completely get your point Andy..its a fair one.
My point was, Pep didn't need to make a point of bringing another keeper in. We already had Englands No1 and arguably the best one in the PL...ok, I admit her made the odd error here n there.
Why didn't he work with Joe on his distribution and have Willy as back up. If it didn't work, then bring Clownio in in the 1st transfer window.
As I said, I personally felt Joe was never given a chance from the off...Peps decision was made before he came.
Oh n iv been on here long enough now not to take anything personally.haha
My point was, Pep didn't need to make a point of bringing another keeper in. We already had Englands No1 and arguably the best one in the PL...ok, I admit her made the odd error here n there.
Why didn't he work with Joe on his distribution and have Willy as back up. If it didn't work, then bring Clownio in in the 1st transfer window.
As I said, I personally felt Joe was never given a chance from the off...Peps decision was made before he came.
Oh n iv been on here long enough now not to take anything personally.haha
shakencity- Cult Hero
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
shakencity wrote:Completely get your point Andy..its a fair one.
My point was, Pep didn't need to make a point of bringing another keeper in. We already had Englands No1 and arguably the best one in the PL...ok, I admit her made the odd error here n there.
Why didn't he work with Joe on his distribution and have Willy as back up. If it didn't work, then bring Clownio in in the 1st transfer window.
As I said, I personally felt Joe was never given a chance from the off...Peps decision was made before he came.
Oh n iv been on here long enough now not to take anything personally.haha
The only reason I can think of Den, is that Pep wanted to immediately implement his style of playing out from the back and didn't believe Joe was good enough and Willy was a better option to start with? Absolutely no idea what the real reason was - which is why the journalist should have used that interview to ask the questions the fans want to know the answers to, as clearly, there's still some animosity over the loaning of Joe.
blueboy- Legend
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
I've said before that Pep seems to have 'issues' with all the big name players we had (except Dave).
Yaya was sent to Coventry because if his agent and his own inexcusable inability to apologise and tell his agent to STFU.
Sergio has been asked to put more in and usurped by Jesus.
Nasri, we are told, was too fat and didn't want to stay and fight for his place. I think he'd had a tough time with his split from his long time g/f and the change of scenery has done him good.
Joe was sidelined and was lucky to get the farewell game against Steaua.
So, Pep has fallen out (seemingly) with big players or sent them packing.
And, I think I've said before, maybe it has to be that way to get everyone on his side from the start and stop the kind of whispers within the team that cause trouble for a manager.
Yaya was sent to Coventry because if his agent and his own inexcusable inability to apologise and tell his agent to STFU.
Sergio has been asked to put more in and usurped by Jesus.
Nasri, we are told, was too fat and didn't want to stay and fight for his place. I think he'd had a tough time with his split from his long time g/f and the change of scenery has done him good.
Joe was sidelined and was lucky to get the farewell game against Steaua.
So, Pep has fallen out (seemingly) with big players or sent them packing.
And, I think I've said before, maybe it has to be that way to get everyone on his side from the start and stop the kind of whispers within the team that cause trouble for a manager.
Topdawg- Legend
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Another thing to consider is this:
The City goal keeping coach is Xabier Mancisidor. He was brought in under Pellegrini and was kept on by Pep.
I'm sure Pep would have spoken to him and asked about Joe Hart's pro's and con's, personality etc before making a decision as he worked with Joe for 3 years.
The City goal keeping coach is Xabier Mancisidor. He was brought in under Pellegrini and was kept on by Pep.
I'm sure Pep would have spoken to him and asked about Joe Hart's pro's and con's, personality etc before making a decision as he worked with Joe for 3 years.
blueboy- Legend
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
He said keepers cannot come off the bench for 10 minutes and show what they can do. He was never asked to do that, if we are to believe what Pep said, Joe was asked to learn a new way and fight for his place like others would be expected to do. This would be in training mostly and maybe in cup games, if he had done that he would be back between the sticks because Clownio went into meltdown, Caballero stayed and ended up with the gig.Moonchester wrote:yes, Joe said, he can't fight for a place as keepers don't get to come off the bench and impress...
as soon as Pep brougth in Bravo it was a no win situation(so no point fighting if you can't win)
I believe Joe threw the dummy out of his pram because Pep did not say he wanted him as his automatic number one. I have no idea why Pep thought Clownio was an upgrade as he is shite at the basic requirement for a keeper, making straightforward saves.
ManCityMan- Key Player
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
I agree MCM. I think Joe threw a wobbly when he knew City were after another 'top' keeper and he would automatically be number two (at best) in the pecking order. No manager is going to recruit 'his' man and have him as the number 2.
Topdawg- Legend
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
I have to admit, this does sound like the most plausible theory.ManCityMan wrote:I believe Joe threw the dummy out of his pram because Pep did not say he wanted him as his automatic number one. I have no idea why Pep thought Clownio was an upgrade as he is shite at the basic requirement for a keeper, making straightforward saves.
leopold- Cult Hero
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
So is this theory Joe or Pep's fault?
blueboy- Legend
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Sorry for not getting back into this debate blue, Had the daughters boyfriends parents round for a meal & drinks tonight. Wife warned me no computer!!!!! tell she's better after surgery??
I agree with moon ref the Chelsea game & would also point out the chances of leaving ourselves so open would not necessarily have arisen for the third goal as I would be confident in joe saving the first two so no way would we have been so open & chasing the game in the dying minutes ( I am also very aware before you point out it is a case of maybe's coulda shoulda etc as we have no concrete facts just in my case a formed opinion based on what I have seen of Joe these past 9 years.
I feel he could have saved the lukaku shot v Everton & the middlesbrough goal from de roon or whatever he was called. wasn't too impressed with the Southampton goal either. joe in one on one situations is far more competent than Bravo which is why I feel confident enough to say I honestly believe Joe could have saved those. That would have reigned us in a further 9 points so challenging Chelsea would not be out of the question.
just my opinion though.
I agree with moon ref the Chelsea game & would also point out the chances of leaving ourselves so open would not necessarily have arisen for the third goal as I would be confident in joe saving the first two so no way would we have been so open & chasing the game in the dying minutes ( I am also very aware before you point out it is a case of maybe's coulda shoulda etc as we have no concrete facts just in my case a formed opinion based on what I have seen of Joe these past 9 years.
I feel he could have saved the lukaku shot v Everton & the middlesbrough goal from de roon or whatever he was called. wasn't too impressed with the Southampton goal either. joe in one on one situations is far more competent than Bravo which is why I feel confident enough to say I honestly believe Joe could have saved those. That would have reigned us in a further 9 points so challenging Chelsea would not be out of the question.
just my opinion though.
skyblueoz- Key Player
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Should've stayed out of the debate with that assessment Oz....
Just kidding - please don't do a Joe and throw your toys out of the pram - it's just a bit of banter.....
On your assessment, Joe must have been fucking brilliant to have saved Costa's goal from 8 yards!
Just kidding - please don't do a Joe and throw your toys out of the pram - it's just a bit of banter.....
On your assessment, Joe must have been fucking brilliant to have saved Costa's goal from 8 yards!
blueboy- Legend
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
Where would we have finished last season on that basis, if Joe wouldn't have made numerous errors that did actually cost us points last season? Same sort of hypothetical question?
blueboy- Legend
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
I don't buy all this "with that keeper he guarantees you 10 points a season" nonsense. If that was the case, Cech and Arsenal would be 2nd or 1st.
Lloris and Spurs would be 1st.
United and DeGea wouldn't be.........6TH, YES 6TH!!
Objectively, you have to look at the chances that Bravo was faced with and the amount of one on one's he was faced with for the goals conceded this season.....
I'm not saying Joe wouldn't have saved half of those goals, but we went through a period in Nov, Dec whereby the defence and MF were not doing their job properly.
Look at the Chelsea for example.....Costa should never have beaten Otamendi and had a completely free shot from 8 yards out on goal. Willian was left completely unmarked and in on goal....and them Hazard was given the freedom of the park to score his goal....those goals were down to poor, poor defensive play and mistakes from the MF's....in another game, KDB slots his open net in and we go 2-0 and game over and nobody complains about Bravo or the defence.
It;s hard to compare who is at fault....but I do agree that Joe is far a better shot stopper and would definitely have saved some of those goals, but we forget the points he lost us last season with his own calamitous mistakes.
Lloris and Spurs would be 1st.
United and DeGea wouldn't be.........6TH, YES 6TH!!
Objectively, you have to look at the chances that Bravo was faced with and the amount of one on one's he was faced with for the goals conceded this season.....
I'm not saying Joe wouldn't have saved half of those goals, but we went through a period in Nov, Dec whereby the defence and MF were not doing their job properly.
Look at the Chelsea for example.....Costa should never have beaten Otamendi and had a completely free shot from 8 yards out on goal. Willian was left completely unmarked and in on goal....and them Hazard was given the freedom of the park to score his goal....those goals were down to poor, poor defensive play and mistakes from the MF's....in another game, KDB slots his open net in and we go 2-0 and game over and nobody complains about Bravo or the defence.
It;s hard to compare who is at fault....but I do agree that Joe is far a better shot stopper and would definitely have saved some of those goals, but we forget the points he lost us last season with his own calamitous mistakes.
blueboy- Legend
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Re: How on earth can Joe Hart be 3rd or 4th choice at City???
It was the Chelsea game that Kev missed the open goal.
I also think we've been a little unlucky at times at the back with deflections going to opponents who slot home.
I wouldn't mind but Bravo's positioning for one on ones is terrible. He's beaten far too easily by standing in the wrong place.
I am confident Joe would have saved a decent proportion of those goals in Nov/Dec but he'd have made some mistakes of his own for sure.
We'll never know what difference he'd have made, but I really think we'd have a few more points and let in fewer goals. Maybe Everton would have beaten us 2-0 instead of 4-0, or he'd have kept us in games so that we could have won rather than draw them. We can't be definite. But we all know what we see with our own eyes. Joe is better than Willy who's better than Bravo.
Maybe Bravo will be better next season. But Willy hasn't signed a new contract. Don't even know if he's been offered a new contract. With Gunn being touted for a loan, will we get a new number one next season and a Bravo drops to number 2? Or becomes a cup keeper?
I also think we've been a little unlucky at times at the back with deflections going to opponents who slot home.
I wouldn't mind but Bravo's positioning for one on ones is terrible. He's beaten far too easily by standing in the wrong place.
I am confident Joe would have saved a decent proportion of those goals in Nov/Dec but he'd have made some mistakes of his own for sure.
We'll never know what difference he'd have made, but I really think we'd have a few more points and let in fewer goals. Maybe Everton would have beaten us 2-0 instead of 4-0, or he'd have kept us in games so that we could have won rather than draw them. We can't be definite. But we all know what we see with our own eyes. Joe is better than Willy who's better than Bravo.
Maybe Bravo will be better next season. But Willy hasn't signed a new contract. Don't even know if he's been offered a new contract. With Gunn being touted for a loan, will we get a new number one next season and a Bravo drops to number 2? Or becomes a cup keeper?
Topdawg- Legend
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