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Moyes' comments

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Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:56 pm

Talksport going on and on about it. After listening for 10-15 minutes, we nipped into Asda for a little shopping. When we came out, they were still on about it. My missus said it's nothing and she'd like to slap the pair of them!

Durham said he'd been threatened by a player when he was a journo but wouldn't name the player. Fucking hypocrite.
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:10 pm

It may have been in jest - hard to judge from a recording, however, his last comment was pretty threatening (to any journo)..."watch yourself next time you come in here"....

If he didn't make that remark - which suggests his other comments were made, less tongue-in-cheek, he may have gotten away with it by saying it was in jest.

A journalist is trying to do their job, regardless of what we think of journo's....they shouldn't have to face intimidation at work just like in any other job....and the fact that Moyes said he told Ellis Short about it 2 weeks ago (why would he do that if it was just a joke) and then went on to say he was frustrated so apologises....suggests it was an intimidation tactic.

The fact it's a woman makes it more headline news - not sure why, but it does.

So, what he did was wrong - and it's rightly being discussed IMO.

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:15 pm

Yes, what he said and maybe the way he said it was inappropriate but I don't think it's worthy of such a lengthy discussion and pummeling of Moyes.

I consider it faux outrage gone too far. They've got to create a heated discussion for their listening audience to phone in.
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by ManCityMan on Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:23 pm

I think it was said light heartedly and has been totally blown out of all proportion as everything does in todays climate
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:30 pm

Maybe it was....

But if so...why did Moyes say he was frustrated (which suggest guilt), told Ellis Short 2 weeks ago (why would he do that if it's a light-hearted conversation?) and then apologise?

If he had nothing to hide, he would have said "The conversation was light-hearted banter between a Manager and a Journalist. I've spoken to the journalist as she agrees.

Therefore, Adrian Durham, shut the fuck up!" Razz Razz Razz

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by ManCityMan on Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:32 pm

I heard a snippet on telly and it didn't sound threatening and she never made a complaint, storm in a tea cup imo
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:30 pm

I think he had to tell his boss as these things tend to come out eventually. Maybe he realised that it could be misinterpreted so he manned up and apologised swiftly and told his boss.

Years ago, our team had been working on a long project. It was full of complexity and complications and very easy to make mistakes. We double checked everything but still something may have got through that would have cost our firm about £6.5k. So I owned up to the boss straight away and said it was my responsibility.

As soon as he realised there could be an issue, he told his boss.
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:42 pm

Still think this is a little different....human error is all around us. We as humans are wired to make mistakes, it's that simple...hence why a Just Culture is so important for a business.

However, a Manager must laugh and joke with journos all the time....but I guarantee you they won't go to their Chairman every time they make 'a joke' with a journo for fear of anything coming back.

And as for your example Dawg....you all realised you'd made a 'mistake' so told your bosses....hence, if you take your analogy into the Moyes situation, clearly, he must have made a 'mistake' for telling his boss - and then apologising for it in public....so it couldn't have been 'in jest', clearly.

Personally, it's black n white:

1. If you honestly thought a comment was in jest, why would you possibly go to your boss afterwards and tell them about an 'in jest comment' you made...and what would possible give you the idea that you should go and tell him?

2. Why would you publicly apologise over the incident and use phrases like "I was frustrated at the time" to justify the reason for the comments?

3. Why would you try and defend it by actually telling the public " I went to see the Chairman immediately"???

Why would someone who is totally innocent of these accusations, say and do any of these things???

A barrister would rip him a new arsehole in Court.

Moyes is cock, so will get what he deserves one way or the other....just IMO.

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:59 pm

I think the initial comments were made in jest. Maybe some communications person spoke to him or he realised for himself how what he said could be taken out of context to screw him over. Maybe he just fucked up like you say Bluey.

We don't actually know so I'm going to call him innocent, but stupid, until we find out more.
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:03 pm

But he isn't innocent Dawg....because he apologised and said "I was frustrated"...which intimates guilt and that it wasn't said in jest.

You'd come out and say "My comments were made in jest, as I have done with plenty of journos over the years. If it was taken out of context, I apologise and have personally apologised to the the journalist is she took it the wrong way".

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:08 pm


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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:44 pm

OK, he's admitted he was wrong. He's apologised to the reporter and she's accepted his apology. Personally, I'd let it rest there but I think Moyes is/will be being vilified by certain sections of the media which may make his position untenable (they'd probably have sacked him for getting them relegated anyway).

If Malky Mackay can get away with a lot worse....
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:12 pm

That....I'm totally in agreement Dawg.

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:36 am

Think Ian Ladyman, a respected North-West journo who's had lots of contact with him, sums it up:

During a career that has headed stubbornly in the wrong direction since he swapped Everton for Manchester United, it has always been clear that David Moyes’s achilles heel was an inability to consistently handle the stifling pressures of management.

It is this stark professional flaw, rather than anything deeply malevolent, that underpins the verbal assault on BBC reporter Vicki Sparks which has now left such an unfortunate imprint on his reputation.

Moyes should not be excused for what he said, nor the way he said it. Ignore the smile and the laughter, the message was clear: Don’t come here with your smart a*** questions, love. This is my house, not yours.

It was patronising, unequivocal and maybe a little sinister. It makes for uncomfortable viewing through a computer screen, so no prizes for guessing how it felt for Sparks. Moyes’s subsequent telephone apology may have been sincere but does not represent mitigation.

However, this episode is not really about Moyes’s perception of women or violence. There is no great evidence in his 35-year football back story of problems with either. Rather, it speaks of a fundamental coping problem with the strains of his profession.

Take this assessment provided by a respected female broadcaster.

‘David has never liked a straight, uncomfortable question. He doesn’t like being pushed. We have all been there when the eyes have popped out of his head.

‘I have never felt it was anything to do with men or women, though. It’s not that complicated,’ she said.

Moyes has a reputation within football for decency. He will not be short of supportive messages.

Nevertheless, the 53-year-old has always been uncomfortable in the glare of the lights. It has always brought out the worst in him. That was most apparent during his short time at United. The attendant pressures of that job were too much and the only surprise is that those who appointed him did not ask enough questions of those who could have warned them.

But that was not just a case of big-club syndrome. Moyes’s issues with criticism and straight questioning were there at Everton and before that at Preston North End.

There are provincial journalists in Lancashire who have never forgotten the breadth of the repercussions when the Scot felt he had been wronged. One was forbidden to set foot on the premises at Deepdale and was once confronted in the car park. Another will not mention Moyes’s name to this day.

Meanwhile, one supporter who wrote a critical letter to the local paper found Moyes on his doorstep. At least that one ended amicably. This one, sadly, may run a little longer.

Some on social media excused Moyes simply because Sparks is heard laughing on the audio.

She has told friends that was nervous laughter, the type born of embarrassment and discomfort.

In taking her on, Moyes was picking on the weakest person in the room as he tried to come to terms with another dismal result. He has form for this, too.

It is hard to take on the written media. In a press conference before or after a football match, they represent a collective.

TV reporters have it tougher in that regard. They stand alone, often broadcasting live, and have nothing but their own wit and instincts to help them if an interviewee decides to get on the front foot.

Moyes certainly seemed a little less sure of himself when he appeared before the media at a gathering originally scheduled to preview tonight’s game at Leicester. We have no reason to doubt his sense of regret, nor question his assertion that managers can say the wrong things ‘in the heat of the moment’. He is not alone there.

But he could have helped himself by referring to Sparks by name. If he really does wish to move clear of accusations of misogyny, then he should realise that talking about ‘the girl’ is not helping.

A personal view is that this should not end Moyes’s career in football. He has credit in the bank.

Equally, let us not ignore evidence of previous years. Another female TV journalist spoke privately on Monday of an angry incident during Moyes’s time at Everton that never came to light. Maybe it is to his long-term benefit, and indeed football’s, that this one has now done so.

Moyes has been a manager for almost 20 years. For the last four he has been fighting an apparent waning of his powers. Now he has a new battle to face, one concerning his reputation, one caused by a fundamental kink in his make-up that many of us have known to be there all along.

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:16 am

Good piece. If there are more skeletons in the closet, then they should come out and we can see Moyes for what he really is.
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by ManCityMan on Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:38 pm

blueboy wrote:But he isn't innocent Dawg....because he apologised and said "I was frustrated"...which intimates guilt and that it wasn't said in jest.

You'd come out and say "My comments were made in jest, as I have done with plenty of journos over the years. If it was taken out of context, I apologise and have personally apologised to the the journalist is she took it the wrong way".

You can replace Walter's Glass Half Full section on the new fan channel!! Razz Razz 
I agree with Dawg, i think there was no malice or threat intended, he merely made a wisecrack that was taken in the spirit it was intended as proven by the fact that she never complained and accepted the apology.
The apology i agree was probably after some PR person pointed out that it was picked up on mic and could be misconstrued or taken out of context and advised that he apologise for any offence caused which she said none was taken and accepted. That should have been the end of the story but what has followed on from that is simply ridiculous. We've had womens groups against violence on women calling for him to be sacked, accusations of sexism, aggressive behaviour blah blah blah. Time to lighten up and grow up in my opinion, nobody involved was offended or felt threatened how difficult is that to understand?
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:16 pm

They should grow a pair and move on
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:08 pm

If it was nothing, I'll ask one simple question:

Why did Moyes got to Ellis Short two weeks ago and tell him about it...pretty much after the incident and we'll before any of this news broke?


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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:48 pm

Either he did something wrong and wanted to cover himself or he did not much wrong and wanted to cover himself.
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Moonchester on Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:59 pm

he'll be getting sacked in a month or so anyways...
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by shakencity on Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:14 pm

Jeez, talk about a storm in a teacup....as far as i'm concerned it's absolutely ridiculous what's followed. The woman in question never even made a complaint and took it for the light hearted banter it was.

It's all these do-gooders that have got involved that have made it into something it's not.

Get a friggin life.
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Moonchester on Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:42 pm

the underlying question is, would he have said this joke if a big burly bloke journo was sat there...
if the answer is no, then the FA might be having a word.

but by all counts he's been a bit of a tool towards all journo's at different times regardless of age, gender etc
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by shakencity on Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:58 pm

Moonchester wrote:the underlying question is, would he have said this joke if a big burly bloke journo was sat there...
Probably, as he said it in jest.....she even laughed it off Rolling Eyes
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:53 pm

shakencity wrote:Jeez, talk about a storm in a teacup....as far as i'm concerned it's absolutely ridiculous what's followed. The woman in question never even made a complaint and took it for the light hearted banter it was.

It's all these do-gooders that have got involved that have made it into something it's not.

Get a friggin life.

FFS.....let's look at it this way, considering many on here think "ahh, get a life"...."storm in a teacup"..."she didn't report it so it must have been in jest" "PC brigade gone mad".....and I'm very anti PC as I've posted threads on here for years about the PC brigade.

Imagine it was a man. He's a sales rep going to a company where the Manager who makes decisions on purchasing is getting a rough time as his sales results have been made public and he isn't doing a great job.

You ask him about his sales results and what's happening. He says "nothing"...you're just about to leave and he says "watch yourself next time you come into my office.....you still may get a punch even though you don't work for us".....

Honestly, you'd think....."what a cock". You wouldn't just laugh it off....you'd be like "yeah right fella, I'd hit you with that many lefts you'd be begging for a right".....but you'd still be pissed off about it.

Or...imagine being with a female colleague in the same scenario and you heard that Sales Manager say to her "watch yourself, you may still get a slap next time you come into my office".....do you really laugh it off as a little bit of banter - or do you grow a pair and say something back to him?

Maybe my morals when it comes to how a man should speak to a female are different to some on here......but basically, Moyes is fucking bully - man or woman. He tried to intimidate someone for asking a difficult question.

Some have said...."yeah, it was all joking and laughing" As Ian Ladyman said in his piece, she told other football journalist friends that she laughed it off because she felt uncomfortable and wasn't sure how to deal with it at the time. That's a normal reaction for a woman or a man.

Remember the comments made by Andy Gray and Richard Keys? They were both sacked for the comments they made off camera to.......? Without looking on Google, who was it?

Let's just say her career nose-dived after this scandal and she's rarely on TV now.

7 points:

1.Why did Moyes say it OFF camera if it was in jest?

2. Why immediately go to Ellis Short if it was all banter and in jest?

3. Why come out and tell the press "I was frustrated when I said that?"

4. Why not say "come on, it's was a little bit of banter"

5. Why call the journalist and ask her to accept his apology if she didn't report anything?

6. Why apologise profusely for his words on TV and say "I deeply regret what I said"?

7. Why would Sunderland not back the Manager and say........ Sunderland have given their support to boss David Moyes but say his comments that a BBC reporter might "get a slap" were "wholly inappropriate".

So....Moyes has admitted guilt. Sunderland have admitted guilt......why can't some 20th Century fellas? Wink


Last edited by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:08 pm

And one other thing....where are the 'male' journalists coming out in support of Moyes saying "yeah, he's said that to me before, it's all banter"?

He's a fucking bully, who lost his rag at a question that he didn't like.....he could easily have just left it there when the interview ended....but he wanted to intimidate her into not asking such question-types again on camera.

Hope the FA throw the book at him.

Oh, and who actually brought this whole thing into the public domain, IF, the journalist didn't make any complaint?

Ellis Short - to get him sacked by the FA so they don't have to pay compensation to a failed Manager???

Who????

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:07 pm

FULL TRANSCRIPT: DAVID MOYES PRESS CONFERENCE
REPORTER: Have you anything you'd like to say?

MOYES: In the heat of the moment, I made a mistake in my comment to a BBC reporter which I profoundly regret. I was disappointed with myself for it. I subsequently phoned the reporter and apologised, which she accepted. It's not my character, it's not my type, as most people know. Once again, I apologised for it. I think people who know me would say what I'm about. In the heat of the moment, I used the wrong words.

The Sunderland manager also warned his interviewer: 'Careful next time you are in'

REPORTER: Why did you say what you did to the interviewer?

MOYES: It was the heat of the moment. The business we're in, sometimes you only have seconds to think and answer. So, you know, it was the wrong thing to do.

HOLD ON.....He said in the heat of the moment. He answered the question 'on air'....but when the interview finished, he made the comments about 'slapping' her and 'be careful next time'.....that's after the interview and isn't "in the heat of the moment" - that's premeditated.

REPORTER: But that particular language, threatening to slap someone, how regrettable was that?

MOYES: I have said that I regret it. I have spoken to the girl, who I apologised to, and she accepted it.

I have spoken to the girl? Would he say that to a younger reporter who was male....I've spoken to the boy? She's at least 30 years of age!

REPORTER: The Shadow Sports Minister has called for you to resign, did you ever consider that?

MOYES: No, never a consideration.

REPORTER: So you think you can survive this?

MOYES: Yes. I don't see it as being something which is in my character. It is something which is out of character. As I said, I've apologised to the girl.

REPORTER: Are you indebted to Vicki for accepting the apology?

MOYES: Yeah, yeah. She was fine, she accepted it. I phoned her on the Monday morning.

REPORTER: Have you had to speak to anyone at the club about it?

MOYES: Like?

REPORTER: The chief executive or owner?

MOYES: I spoke to Martin (Bain) immediately after it happened. I spoke to Ellis about it on the Monday morning as well. They were aware of it two weeks ago.

REPORTER: Do you think it will cost you your job?

MOYES: No.

REPORTER: Gary Lineker has tweeted that it has highlighted the tendency for managers to treat interviewers with utter disdain, it's inexcusable. Do you agree with that?

MOYES: No, I don't agree. In the heat of the moment, sometimes the questions come in and you can answer them wrongly. You don't always say the right things.

REPORTER: So it was the line of questioning rather than it being a woman asking it?

PRESS OFFICER: It's fairly obvious that David has been very gracious and has answered all of the questions. It's not in his character, it's nothing to do with the fact it's a female reporter.

REPORTER: Well let him answer it.

MOYES: I will always try to answer the questions.

REPORTER: It is a big issue that there are groups trying to get more women involved in the professional game, do you think that kind of comment is a deterrent?

MOYES: I think if you look at my history, I have actually been one of the biggest ones campaigning for women's football. I tried to make sure we had Everton Ladies. At Manchester United, I was very keen on them having one. My daughter played for Preston until she was 19. I actually think to ask about ladies football and myself, you're asking the wrong person.

REPORTER: As for women in football, you're supportive?

MOYES: Totally.

REPORTER: But there is going to be anger about this?

MOYES: Yeah, that's right, here will be. As I said, I deeply regret and I've done what I had to do and apologised, which I was right to do so.

REPORTER: Will this distract from the football?

MOYES: No, because as I've said, it was two or three weeks ago. For some reason, it's been brought up now.

REPORTER: Do you still want to carry on?

MOYES: Yes, I want to do the job and I want to get it right. There's been a lot of difficulties, but I want to be here. This club has not been winning often enough for a long time now. It's been a difficult season for lots of reasons, but I believe there are better times to come.

REPORTER: There are previous examples of Ron Atkinson and Malky Mackay, is there a concern this could escalate to that level in the next 48 hours?

MOYES: No. I think you all know my character, you know who I am. Anybody you want to ask to speak for me, they will tell you different.

REPORTER: What have your family said about?

MOYES: I've been with my wife last night and this morning, she's been up, we had breakfast this morning. So, all good. My daughter as well.

EARLIER, IN TV PRESS CONFERENCE:

REPORTER: You can hear the regret in your voice though that you're obviously disappointed that it happened?

MOYES: 'Yeah it happens, but we're in an industry where sometimes you don't always answer things the way you want to.'

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:19 pm

I'll agree that he's a bit of a bully. But I still don't consider this as a career ending incident or even a sacking incident. I think what Malky Mackay said was worse and the FA let that one drop. Investigate it, censure him with a hefty fine if you have to, but that should be the end of it for me. And I don't like Moyes (not that it should have anything to do with it).

And I really don't like this 'she told a friend' bit. If she's not happy about it, she should say so. She should say she felt pressured into accepting his apology for her career in this industry. She's letting women down by not doing so.
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:28 pm

She never, ever, said that she accepted his apology because she felt pressured.

When asked by colleagues why she didn't say something at the time, she said she felt embarrassed and didn't know how to handle his approach...so she went along with the laughing.

I'm sure she feels as much under pressure for this not to become public, in some respect, for fear of her being ostracised like the woman (who was it??????) who was exposed to sexual innuendos by Keys and Gray!

Look....ask yourself this and forget this incident completely.

Have you EVER in your life, as man, said to a woman, be it in jest or not....."don't ask me that again, because next time you may get a slap"?

If you have....you need to take a long fucking stare at yourself in the mirror...... Rolling Eyes


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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:34 pm

I'll turn it the other way. If you haven't ever said that, in jest or being serious, you need to have a long hard look at yourself in the mirror....
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:38 pm

How would you rate it on a level from 1-10 in terms of its seriousness?
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:50 pm

Topdawg wrote:I'll turn it the other way. If you haven't ever said that, in jest or being serious, you need to have a long hard look at yourself in the mirror....

WTF??? No...I've never threatened a woman in jest, that she'll get a slap next time we come across each other.....was that a serious point or 'in jest'? Shocked Shocked Shocked

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:55 pm

I'll be shocked if quite a few guys have not said something like that in jest to a woman. It depends on the context whether it is sinister or not.
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:56 pm

Topdawg wrote:How would you rate it on a level from 1-10 in terms of its seriousness?

For me, on the total 'evidence' of what he said at the time, when he said, what he said to his boss and when he said it, what he said when it became public, what he said to the media in response to the allegations, what the club said about the incident........a 9/10.

He'd be out order in ANY workplace - as a Boss, to tell any gender of his workforce, "you'll get a slap if you ask me a difficult question again, next time"......never mind, 'off camera' to a female journalist...and then ADMIT to the fact that he was frustrated, he was totally wrong and it was out of character.

I'm just amazed that 'guys' on here are making light of it as if what he said was OK, because there was 'chuckles' in the background by other males. I mean really????

If it happened to your wife in the course of her job, you'd actually be quite comfortable with it??? Rolling Eyes

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Moonchester on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:57 pm

the wife in the bedroom is different to a professional sports interviewer,,,
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:59 pm

Topdawg wrote:I'll be shocked if quite a few guys have not said something like that in jest to a woman. It depends on the context whether it is sinister or not.

WHAT???? Really???

Have you ever said to somebody at work who you come across in passing (someone you actually don't know as a friend or a close colleague)????? If so, maybe you're right, the majority of men may think that's acceptable to say to a woman or anyone who you don't actually consider a close mate, colleague or a family member who's known you for years.....as is comfortable with your humour (which by the way, Moyes claimed was "out of character")!!

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:02 pm

Moonchester wrote:the wife in the bedroom is different to a professional sports interviewer,,,

Totally agree Moon.....

I've worked with female cabin crew for years.....and they can be as dirty as any bloke, but you know your boundaries even when you know them really, really well. Cheekily, you may say, hey, I'll slap your arse for you!....but you know that's acceptable because of your relationship with them that has been built up over years and you are friends.....but I'd never dream of saying to one of my airline delegates that I don't know, who asked me a difficult question....."hey, when you come into class tomorrow, be careful, just because your a woman, doesn't mean I won't give you a slap"!!

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:05 pm

You said in jest or not. Most guys here may well have said something similar in jest.
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:07 pm

blueboy wrote:
Moonchester wrote:the wife in the bedroom is different to a professional sports interviewer,,,

Totally agree Moon.....

I've worked with female cabin crew for years.....and they can be as dirty as any bloke, but you know your boundaries even when you know them really, really well. Cheekily, you may say, hey, I'll slap your arse for you!....but you know that's acceptable because of your relationship with them that has been built up over years and you are friends.....but I'd never dream of saying to one of my airline delegates that I don't know, who asked me a difficult question....."hey, when you come into class tomorrow, be careful, just because your a woman, doesn't mean I won't give you a slap"!!
That's quite interesting. I wouldn't say that to a female colleague that I'd known for many years, especially if I was in the office. That's just me.

Here's a what if. What if she complained about you for sexual harassment? Would you still be so harsh on yourself?
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:31 pm

If she complained to a boss...and I've had known her for years and classed her as a friend - I think it would be plainly obvious there was another reason behind her complaint and there'd be plenty of other evidence on the other foot...of her saying things to me - otherwise, why would I assume it was fine to talk like that?

And I never said I'd said that comment....it was an example....I've said far worse!!!! Razz Razz Razz Razz Difference being - as I said, I'd known them for years and considered them a friend, not someone I'd just met or only come across once or twice. There's a difference.

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:32 pm

Topdawg wrote:
blueboy wrote:
Moonchester wrote:the wife in the bedroom is different to a professional sports interviewer,,,

Totally agree Moon.....

I've worked with female cabin crew for years.....and they can be as dirty as any bloke, but you know your boundaries even when you know them really, really well. Cheekily, you may say, hey, I'll slap your arse for you!....but you know that's acceptable because of your relationship with them that has been built up over years and you are friends.....but I'd never dream of saying to one of my airline delegates that I don't know, who asked me a difficult question....."hey, when you come into class tomorrow, be careful, just because your a woman, doesn't mean I won't give you a slap"!!
That's quite interesting. I wouldn't say that to a female colleague that I'd known for many years, especially if I was in the office. That's just me.

Here's a what if. What if she complained about you for sexual harassment? Would you still be so harsh on yourself?


I wouldn't say that to a female colleague that I'd known for many years, especially if I was in the office. That's just me.
.....................
But you "giving you a slap next time you come to the office" is OK? Make your mind up FFS! Razz  Razz  Razz

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:47 pm

Look....it's a debate about opinions. I have mine, some agree some don't.

I'm off to bed now....think I've made my point as have others on this incident....and it's a worthy debate.

I'll just leave you with this:

I've been berated by some on here for using the C word towards someone that none of you know personally. I've never used it against anyone on here. I clearly at the time, offended some people and they made their thoughts clear and I apologised for using that word as it offended them...and that's absolutely fine and just.

Others have disagreed with comments made on here by me and other members and made it known...even though they may not have been made directly towards them.

Yet, a man tells a woman that she may get slapped by him next time she comes into his domain......and people on here are actually sticking up for him?

Oh the irony. Razz Razz Razz


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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:58 pm

you deserved it before!!! Razz Razz Razz

There would have been a first time to say something 'dodgy' to a colleague you thought was a friend and you could say it. But they might be offended and decide to take it further.

I'm not defending Moyes just for the sake of it. I agree with you that what he said was wrong, I just don't agree over the severity.  I'm not saying it shouldn't be taken seriously, just not as seriously as you are taking it.
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:05 pm

I'm not saying it shouldn't be taken seriously, just not as seriously as you are taking it.

What the difference between 'seriously.....and seriously'? Razz Razz Razz Razz

Just kidding....you don't have to answer that. Very Happy

I guess I'm being pedantic now...so off to bed. Wink

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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:24 pm

I'd say it merited 6 out of 10, especially after watching the video
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:26 am


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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by Topdawg on Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:10 am

More interesting points. Not sure all accurate, but it's his opinion.
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by ManCityMan on Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:41 pm

blueboy wrote:
shakencity wrote:Jeez, talk about a storm in a teacup....as far as i'm concerned it's absolutely ridiculous what's followed. The woman in question never even made a complaint and took it for the light hearted banter it was.

It's all these do-gooders that have got involved that have made it into something it's not.

Get a friggin life.

FFS.....let's look at it this way, considering many on here think "ahh, get a life"...."storm in a teacup"..."she didn't report it so it must have been in jest" "PC brigade gone mad".....and I'm very anti PC as I've posted threads on here for years about the PC brigade.

Imagine it was a man. He's a sales rep going to a company where the Manager who makes decisions on purchasing is getting a rough time as his sales results have been made public and he isn't doing a great job.

You ask him about his sales results and what's happening. He says "nothing"...you're just about to leave and he says "watch yourself next time you come into my office.....you still may get a punch even though you don't work for us".....

Honestly, you'd think....."what a cock". You wouldn't just laugh it off....you'd be like "yeah right fella, I'd hit you with that many lefts you'd be begging for a right".....but you'd still be pissed off about it.

Or...imagine being with a female colleague in the same scenario and you heard that Sales Manager say to her "watch yourself, you may still get a slap next time you come into my office".....do you really laugh it off as a little bit of banter - or do you grow a pair and say something back to him?

Maybe my morals when it comes to how a man should speak to a female are different to some on here......but basically, Moyes is fucking bully - man or woman. He tried to intimidate someone for asking a difficult question.

Some have said...."yeah, it was all joking and laughing" As Ian Ladyman said in his piece, she told other football journalist friends that she laughed it off because she felt uncomfortable and wasn't sure how to deal with it at the time. That's a normal reaction for a woman or a man.

Remember the comments made by Andy Gray and Richard Keys? They were both sacked for the comments they made off camera to.......? Without looking on Google, who was it?

Let's just say her career nose-dived after this scandal and she's rarely on TV now.

7 points:

1.Why did Moyes say it OFF camera if it was in jest?

2. Why immediately go to Ellis Short if it was all banter and in jest?

3. Why come out and tell the press "I was frustrated when I said that?"

4. Why not say "come on, it's was a little bit of banter"

5. Why call the journalist and ask her to accept his apology if she didn't report anything?

6. Why apologise profusely for his words on TV and say "I deeply regret what I said"?

7. Why would Sunderland not back the Manager and say........ Sunderland have given their support to boss David Moyes but say his comments that a BBC reporter might "get a slap" were "wholly inappropriate".

So....Moyes has admitted guilt. Sunderland have admitted guilt......why can't some 20th Century fellas? Wink
 Sorry mate but the hypothetical scenarios you came up with actually sound aggressive and threatening, Moyes didn't sound like that to most people including the alleged victim. You can re-produce as many 'similar' scenarios as you like but at the end of the day it comes down to context, tone of voice and intent etc. Very few people, of which you are clearly one, think this was more than it was actually intended to be. Yes he was a bit miffed but he did not seriously threaten to slap her, he was speaking metaphorically. If i  said, as we all have i'm sure   Shocked i'd better get off home or i'll be getting a slap off the wife, i would mean a bollocking and not an actual slap. People are taking this far too literally and out of context. I'm saying no more on this fiasco, thats my opinion and you have yours  Very Happy
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:13 pm

Sorry...I edited this post because I didn't want people thinking I was being aggressive (even though I didn't mean it to be....it could have been misinterpreted as that).....have to be careful not to piss people off....my apologies. Very Happy



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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:16 pm

And as for your example MCM...you're talking about a slap to you, by your missus...so it's pretty irrelevant to what was actually said, to whom and in what environment. There was no relationship between Vicki Sparks and David Moyes....they weren't married, seeing each other or friends. It was in a professional environment.

As for the few agreeing with my opinion comment, seems that there are very few, if any articles in the media or on the radio and TV, that agree with your theory, that is was taken out of context and blown out of proportion.

The FA, the Chairman of Sunderland, even Moyes himself didn't see it that way because of the apologies made by Moyes and Sunderland, the comments made by both, the stance the FA took, the articles posted by respected journalists like Ian Ladyman and Martin Samuel (to name a few...but I can post more)...but feel free to post the majority of evidence that it's some overblown PC nonsense and a storm in a tea cup. I've posted evidence to back up my side of the debate....post yours.

However....this is not a "I'm right your wrong" thread......it's a debate on a social issue in football. If you can present the evidence to convince me I'm wrong, then I'll happily change my mind on this issue.

If you wish to not debate it any further......then don't reply. It's a forum. This is a debatable issue in football that just happened. I'm only putting my counter-argument across as to why I believe Moyes was out of order. I've tried to be objective and I've given clear evidence as to why....if others have a counter-argument rather than just an 'opinion' and wish to debate this...I'd more than welcome it.....as I may be wrong on my stance and I may have missed something.....but let's not get all titty-lipped about it. It's a debate on a forum that has been designed for debate on footballing issues.

Please.....it's not personal. It's just a debate...and one on this issue, which I think is interesting.

It's.....not.....personal. Very Happy
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Re: Moyes' comments

Post by blueboy on Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:50 am


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