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Pellegrini....

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Pellegrini....

Post by Wensdi on Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:07 pm

I don't understand why it's taking so long for Pep to adjust to the Premier League.  Didn't Pellers win us a League Cup Trophy and a Prem title in his first year with us?  Not that I want him back as his last year was awful - but he didn't have any better players than we have at the present time.  Is it Pep, his style of play or simply down to the team not trying hard enough or having enough confidence?
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:55 pm

MP won the title and the League Cup in his first season, as you rightly pointed out.

However, that was in the 2013 season....nearly 4 years ago.

Aguero was 24
TLMLF 29
Silva 27
Vinny 26
Fernandinho 27
Zaba 28
Navas 27
Clichy 27
Kolorov 27

They're all 4 years older with most tipping over the 31 mark.

I heard Tony Cascarino talking about it earlier today and he said he could see Pep going for young attacking defenders from France - Monaco and PSG.....and when he gets them, this current team will be incredible, as they are in a transitional period now, adapting to Pep's new style, but sadly, the defence is far too old and don't have the legs to do what he wants...but when he gets the defence right, everything will slot into place and we will be the team to watch next season.

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Paulpowersleftfoot on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:06 pm

Most of our problems are down to having no full backs at the club who are anywhere near good enough.
It's been an appalling period of management to get where we are now,having to resort to the utterly dreadful Navas playing there
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:10 pm

Yes that's true but we all knew that at the start of the season and pep did too. Talk that he turned down a bid for Kante too. As I've said several times, we were the top scorers. We needed work in our defence. If he'd got the best 2-3 young defenders out there and no new MFs or strikers last summer, we'd be challenging for the title
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:11 pm

As I said on the live thread, marwood was in charge of recruitment during a period when we got most of our best players. Txiki has been woeful
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Paulpowersleftfoot on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:13 pm

Really big summer transfer window coming up
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blisteringblue on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:14 pm

Look top 4 and a possible FA Cup isn't a bad first season by any means, but after the start it probably should have been much better.

The Spuds, Everton & Leciester stuffings are the only truly woeful games this season.

We could and probably should have beaten the Chavs in both games and this is where I have the issue with Pep.   He sets up to blow teams away to get the win.   He has no winning ugly.  Chelsea are the masters of this.   Take the masterclass 2nd half last night of shutting us out.

This is what Pep needs to learn.  This isn't Spain or Germany where there are only 2 teams.   This time next year is when we judge Pep but at the moment I would only give him 7/10.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Paulpowersleftfoot on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:15 pm

7/10?
Just a 5 from me
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by shakencity on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:33 pm

Right, now i'm probably gonna upset a few people here but I actually think Pep's been absolutely rubbish. His signings have been suspect and his selections have been questionable and damn right strange at times and it won't be any different for the remainder of the season.

Like Rich, Imo this summers window is vitally important to how City will fair next season and if Pep doesn't sort out his defence and get the right players further forward I for one honestly wouldn't be sorry to see him leave....and yes I do mean that, as I can't see any improvement on this seasons very average showing.

I remember all the excitement when we found out he was coming....and as of yet has failed to deliver and show any of the great reputation that was supposed to come with.

In a nutshell...i'm not to impressed with him thus far.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:55 pm

I think it's harsh to judge Pep on 1 season. He inherited a team that should have been updated 2 years ago, never mind last summer. He was NEVER going to replace 10/11 players in one summer.

As for his signings being suspect....

1. Bravo - yes, I agree.

2. Sane? Nothing suspect about him.

3. Gabriel? Looked incredible then got injured - so nothing suspect about him either.

4. Stones? Nothing suspect about him...he'll be brilliant when he gets a proper CB next to him.

5. Nolito? Yes, I call him the Spanish Robbie Savage, but we've not really seen enough of him to truly judge him.

6. Gundogan? Was excellent just before his injury.

That's 2 new signings brought in to play in his style - Gabriel and Gundogan....both have missed large portion of the season. Hardly Pep's fault.

I can see what he's trying to do with the team...and yes, he could be more pragmatic, but that's not his style. I think with 3 or 4 new signings in the summer, the defence will be taken care of....with Gabriel and Gundogan back fit, that 2 players out of his 5 attacking players that will suit his style of play back in the team.

Yes, I'm not impressed with some of his decisions, like Navas at RB...very strange indeed.

As for Conte and Chelsea....he had a great team to start with, a team that had won the PL two seasons ago...but was fucked up by Maureen. He also had no distractions with CL football, which is a massive advantage. Let's see how he copes next season.

Last night we out-played Chelsea in every statistic....but we failed to convert our chances. Chelsea had 3 shots on target all game....one of them was a penalty that was saved initially and the other was a mistake by Willy.....and they were at home.
They've also had very few injuries to deal with - which is down to playing far less games and a little bit if luck.

Did I expect more after the first 6 games? Absolutely.

However, having your Captain miss 90% of the games doesn't help matters. Having 2 new signings injured means lesser talented players have to fill the voids....and sadly, they're too old and too slow to that job.

He tried to get the players he wanted last summer, like Laporte - but they didn't come....which suggests he'll be going all out this summer to get the players he wants and possibly, another striker as well.

I'm happy with a top 4 finish and an FA Cup....if we win it. It's a transitional year but I agree, if the summer doesn't bring about the signings needed, he'll be under immense pressure.

You also have to blame Txiki for the past few years of pathetic signings.....some have been dreadful.

Rumours are that Pep will go all out for Rose, Walker and Alli in the summer. That will be hard - but with Levy, money talks...and if true, I can't see him turning down £150m for those 3 players. Add another CB for £50m and another striker for £70m.....and that's some significant money being spent - but may recoup at least £50m of that on player sales.

For me....I'll split the difference and say 6/10 so far. That could a 8/10 if we win the FA Cup and finish top 4.

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:11 pm

If we don't get top 4 it's a 3 or 4 out if 10 for me. Top 4 and an fa cup and it's 6 out of 10. You've got to remember that Pep inherited a team that got to the semi finals if the CL last season and he's added sane to strengthen the attack
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:12 pm

MP took these long players to a top 4 finish too and I don't reckon he'll get more than 6 from most of us for last season even though he won the League cup too
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:15 pm

Pep's also gambled with tactics. Some have worked and we've said wow, what a genius and others have been atrocious. Hit and miss means he's a gambler or doesn't really know what he's doing. Navas at RB or Fernandinho at RB have failed. kolarov at CB probably a hit.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:34 pm

Topdawg wrote:Pep's also gambled with tactics. Some have worked and we've said wow, what a genius and others have been atrocious. Hit and miss means he's a gambler or doesn't really know what he's doing. Navas at RB or Fernandinho at RB have failed. kolarov at CB probably a hit.

Sorry Dawg, but IMO, that's a ridiculous comment:

Hit and miss means he's a gambler or doesn't really know what he's doing.

This is a Manager who took at team that hadn't won anything for years, and created a team that was probably the best we've ever witnessed in our lifetime. It wasn't down to just the players either.
He created a style of play that we'd never seen before. Whilst at Barca, he came up against an incredible Galatico team in Real Madrid - a team that would have walked the PL every single year.....and not only did he win La Liga consistently against this amazing team, he then went on to manage Bayern - against a brilliant Dortmund team and won the title in every season he was there.

Ferguson is classed as the best Manager in PL history.....but he didn't win the PL every season, even when he clearly had by far the best squad in the PL. Arsenal came along and matched his squad - and United were faced with a rival who potentially, had a better squad and a new style of football....built by Wenger. Both of these teams spent fortunes over the years building these teams - none of them came into the job and won the PL immediately, as the teams needed rebuilding, just like ours does.

We spent millions to build a team that Mancini took to the PL title....a winning team, still in it's prime, that MP took over - with other teams around us who hadn't really improved theirs to the degree that Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool have recently done.

So to say he's a gambler or doesn't know what he's doing is a little bizarre. A Manager that won 21 trophies in 7 years??? If he's a gambler.....I'll call him for a tip for the Grand National on Saturday!! Razz Razz Razz

The PL now has 4 or 5 teams that have invested heavily - a bit like we did a few years ago, which now means far more competition. We have no divine right to be top of the table, nor do we have a divine right to be winning things. Chelsea have won what so far this season? Spurs? Liverpool? Only United have won something so far - and they've smashed the world record transfer fee for 1 player, added another £120m worth of players and they're where in the PL...with a Manager some think is the best in the world?

Pep will rebuild in the summer and I'm sure we'll see some big signings coming in. A Manager of Pep's standing will get it right. That, I'm sure of...but it still won't guarantee any silverware....we'll have to earn that.

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by shakencity on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:40 pm

You do make some fair points there Andy (your 7.55pm post), especially about Vinny missing and Pep inheriting an aging team.
Sorry though, I disagree on some of the players, just please remember this is only my opinion mate.
 
Sane's took 3/4 of the season to show us anything, he was poor before that.
Nolito, Bravo are crap...end of.
Gundogan, very hit n miss...imo the jury's still out.
Stones...decent signing.
Jesus...when he eventually came, started very well...we can only hope he's no crock and carries on where he left off.

As I said, he NEEDS to build on the squad he's assembling and get rid of some deadwood over the summer if we're to move forward next season.....and i honestly really hope he can do this.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:52 pm

Den, I never take any disagreement personally....in fact I welcome it. It's what the forum is all about - as you said, 'opinions'.

Sane...trying to stick up for him - he was 20 years of age, came to a new country, culture, club, team mates, manager and style of football. He was definitely bought for the future and yes, he was in and out of the team at the beginning, but then, he was probably our most influential player for a few months....but recently, even though he's continued to score and make assists, he's gone off the boil. Maybe it's time for the bench for a few games??

Sane has 8 goals in 21 starts and 3 assists....that's decent for a 20 year old in his 1st season.

Gundogan - I thought as the beginning he was so-so, but maybe coming back after an injury, it took him time to find his feet as well. He was then one of our better players until his injury.

Nolito and Bravo...agree.

I'm with you....he does NEED to build in the summer and I'm absolutely positive he will do and is already planning his transfer strategy.

Just watched this:


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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:02 pm

Saying what I see this season. He's made some oddball decisions. Some have worked and others have backfired. You can't tell me he had poor players at either Barca or Bayern. Yes, he had his own style and they've played brilliant football, as have we at times, but he's got to be judged on results (as well as style)
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:04 pm

Some of his gambles have worked (Kolarov at CB) and others have failed (Navas or Fernandinho at RB). sterling and sane, success. Bravo - failure. So hit and miss for me.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Paulpowersleftfoot on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:09 pm

Topdawg wrote:Some of his gambles have worked (Kolarov at CB) and others have failed (Navas or Fernandinho at RB). sterling and sane, success. Bravo - failure. So hit and miss for me.
Stubbornly sticking to a system without having the personnel to play the system has been by far his biggest problem
Not having a plan B was pellegrinis Achilles heel
Plan A is peps
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by shakencity on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:14 pm

One big question we have to ask is:
If (and it is a possibility) we don't get a top 4 place, will Peps targets want to come to play Mickey Mouse European football? Shocked
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:28 pm

£ talks....Zlatan went to United with no CL football, but it will always put some players off. I don't think the big, big potential signings may come.....but then again, if you believe the media, Griezman will be joining United and they definitely may not have CL football.

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:30 pm

Topdawg wrote:Saying what I see this season. He's made some oddball decisions. Some have worked and others have backfired. You can't tell me he had poor players at either Barca or Bayern. Yes, he had his own style and they've played brilliant football, as have we at times, but he's got to be judged on results (as well as style)

I never said he had poor players, he didn't....but the likes of Dortmund had an incredible team and Real Madrid, possibly had a better squad than Barcelona....and were probably the best team/squad in world football.

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:39 pm

if, buts and maybes. As Rich said, he's been stubborn with his system and that's certainly cost us at times. Yes, we can repeat he's been unlucky with injuries and decisions, but sometimes you have to play horses for courses. And Navas is a carthorse.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by TMG on Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:07 am

And in my view his methods and stubbornness to make Sergio & Kev play the way Pep wants has ruined 2 very good players. They may do a lot more running around and chasing back but both have suffered badly this season in front of goal which is where we have needed them most. If Sergio goes, (with Blueys blessing if we get £60 milllion) I bet he'l be back to his best wherever he goes without Peps shackles

Pep only gets a 5/10 from me so far. Very disappointed with him and his tactics. We do have some ageing players yes but we have a big enough squad and plenty of very promising youngsters who have been given little chance and playing the chocolate teapot Navas in any game is just plain fucking moronic Mad
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:37 am

You can't ruin players to make them miss open nets, penalties..gilt-edged chances. Sometimes, the players just have to take some responsibilty as well.
I think there are small margins in games...and has been discussed before, the players take these chances in games...we could be very close to Chelsea now...and everyone wouldn't be using Pep's tactics as the reason for being 4th and in an FA Cup semi.


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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:09 am

I can't  remember which famous player/coach said you have to be good enough to take the referee out of the equation. You have to have the quality to win regardless.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by TMG on Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:17 am

Obviously Pep isn't responsible for Sergio & KdB missing clear chances but in my view he has 'ruined' them by giving them different roles. KdB a more defensive role when he is far better in attacking roles & one of our main threats last season. Sergio should be just concentrating on what he does best, scoring instead of worrying about other things Pep insists he does
It's like Hart is a far better keeper than Clownio and Willy but coz Pep insists on a GK having ground skills we have had to endure 2 much worse keepers than Little Joe & have paid dearly for it
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:41 am

Sergio has 9 goals in 9 games and 27 goals in 37 appearances this season.....hardly ruined him. Shocked

As for the keeper situation, think we've all discussed this to death. Hart simply cannot play the way Pep wants him to play as his skills with the ball at his feet are not good enough....but agree, he's a better shot stopper than both of the two we have now.

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:53 am

However you want to look at it, Pep has underwhelmed this season. Even in transition, I think he should have done far better.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:58 am

In your opinion... Very Happy

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:59 am

But feel free to back up your opinion with facts... Laughing

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by TMG on Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:18 am

And yet " hate to say it, but the writing is on the wall for me on his performances of late.."


Last edited by TMG on Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:26 am

What facts would you like?

Knocked out of the CL at first knock out stage?
Knocked out of the LC early on to a non threatening rags team?
In a fight for 4th place after winning our first 6 league games was it?

And you can't simply use your players are old argument as these are the same players as last year when we won the LC, got to the semis in the CL and underwhelmed in the FA cup. And we've got Sane this season. And, for a little while Gundogan too.

We were the top scorers last season, and probably the two season before that too, so scoring goals wasn't the big issue until more recently.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by skyblueoz on Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:01 pm

Some people are disappointed with Pep but I really believe the expectation fuelled in some part by the media was because of who he is & his persona he would just walk the premier his battle would be with the moany one & City united would be top 2.

Yes it hasn't panned out as well as I would have wanted but I am 100% behind him to put it all together when he has his team playing his way. We got him in because he is the best around he played a certain style with Barca & Bayern & that is what he will implement here sooner rather than later with the right personnel. A Little patience is required & keep expectations in check.

Even the best can make mistakes & I am pretty sure he didn't expect Bravo to be as wank  as has proved to be or Nolito to be as underwhelming as he has been.

I can't believe Den reckons Sane has been poor for 3/4 of the season. He arrived injured made his debut as sub against united was in and out of the side for the 1st few months mainly due to niggling injuries & peps style of play. The season has just reached the 3/4 mark so I would suggest Sane has at the very least looked the business in the second half of the season I personally think he looked a good signing from his 1st appearance.

The same applies in my book to Gundogan who came into the side off the back of a very serious injury & certainly showed me he was a player whom could hold his own very easily in the premier league. His performances against Barcelona & West Brom were standouts for me and he looked to be a very good signing.

Gabriel looks class.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:18 pm

It's not all about winning trophies and it is all about winning trophies. We've won just the league cup in these last three years which is pretty poor.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:19 pm

I think sane has been excellent, on average, since January. Gundogan and Jesus will prove good buys.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:03 pm

Topdawg wrote:It's not all about winning trophies and it is all about winning trophies. We've won just the league cup in these last three years which is pretty poor.

So why are you blaming Pep for the past 3 years then?

This is long.....so if you can't be arsed, I understand. Very Happy

.....................................................

Pep is just 3/4 through his first season in the PL, with a team....that we all know, needed a massive overhaul...and the evidence was there from what WE ALL said last season.

He was NEVER going to be able to replace the following positions in 1 sweep:

I'll say keeper, only because he replaced him (even though we all thought Hart would be No.1)
RB
LB
CB
CDMF
Wingers x2
CMF
x2 strikers

That's at least 8 players from the past 2 seasons, that we all know were getting over-the-hill and needed replacing....so he wasn't going to replace 8 first team players to start this season...nobody EVER has in football management.

Argument: "he should have replaced more of the back 4 than the attackers".

My opinion: Pep likes to play from the front to the back. He likes to keep the ball as much as he can and win it back quickly as high up the pitch as he can.....that's obvious from the Barca and Bayern models.....both of which won him 21 trophies in 7 years.
Problem was, we really needed a massive overhaul up front, out wide and in MF as the players we had in the summer - were clearly not good enough or weren't showing their true potential under MP....who was coming to the end of his career path with City.

So, he bought the following youth players:
Sane
Stones
Gabriel

He added Ilkay and Nolito.

That's 5 players, when we all knew that we needed at least 8 players.....but he tried for the likes of Laporte and failed...and we ended up with 5, in the hope he could adapt the existing players into his style of play.

When we talk about style of play...we've all read the rumours that Pep wanted the academy players to play a certain way and that he wanted them to play 2 years ahead of their age group....and that's certainly paid off immensely at those levels....and it was touted that he did that 12 months before he actually came to City - almost in preparation.

He hoped Vinny would be able to coach and mentor Stones through the season before handing over the reigns....sadly, that didn't happen as we know.

In the meantime, we had Chelsea and Conte. We all knew how strong Chelsea really were - with a team full of excellent players - mismanaged by Mourinho last season....which led to his dismissal/leaving....but they were the PL champions and missed out on CL football last season, which is a massive advantage - be able to work with a team for 5 days prior to a match. Yes, I'm sure they'd have liked to have been in the CL....but it does bring it's benefits not being in it.

United spent heavily....bringing in the worlds most expensive signing, plus another £100m+ on proven players.

Spurs continued to evolve their squad and the younger elements of their team were another PL year wiser...which always helps.

Arsenal, well, are Arsenal....

Liverpool invested heavily after 6 months of Klopp's transformation period - and were always going to be a threat with his style of play and the players and squad they ended up with.

So, all in all....at the start of the season (and I've not reviewed any previous posts), I'm sure we all started off thinking "Pep will need a season to adjust and if we win a Cup and finish top 4, I'd be happy with that"....anything else was a bonus, a good CL run being one of them.

We started off the season on fire - to the point where everyone, even the media, thought "who is going to finish 2nd to City"....even though Pep consistently told the press "you like me now, but when we lose, you won't like me".....never a truer word spoken in jest!

Chelsea were garbage under Conte and bookmakers were taking bets on how long he'd last....but they always had that time to work on routines, that other teams in thee CL never had.

United were United. Good games, poor games, over-reactions etc etc....

Spurs were average, but then came good.

Arsenal, it looked like it could be there season and City went through a bad period over Xmas and New Year. Vinny proved it was a false dawn....Pep converted Kolorov into a CB and (read the posts on here), we all sort of went "wtf?"....but we just couldn't finish teams off and every shot the opposition had, went in...whilst we went on to miss chance after chance, penalty after penalty. We outplayed Chelsea, yet got beat. We outplayed United in the League Cup with a team full of kids, yet marginally lost...out of the League Cup.

Meanwhile, we were drawn in a group in the Cl that included Barcelona....same old same old.....and yet, we outplayed them for large periods of the away game and beat a full strength Barca team 3-1, which Pep demonstrated that his style of play certainly works on teams that like to press high in the CL (a signing of his Gundogan scoring twice and getting MOM).....whilst in the PL, we were seeing the high press and energy, being adopted by Liverpool and Spurs to good effect, Chelsea being Chelsea, playing a boring, pragmatic approach that picked up points routinely, even though the football was average at best to watch.

Gundogan gets injured....Vinny is still breaking down and we have the arrival of Gabriel to lighten the mood around the Etihad. Another Robinho? Well it wasn't long before we realised, that for £27m we had signed a potential superstar. Suddenly, Aguero was warming the bench and the media were in uproar..."Pep's lost the plot".....yet we went on a winning run without him and and Gabriel, Sane and Sterling leading the attack with energy and pace.

Then, the worst thing happened...Gabriel got injured after playing 3/4 games. That momentum stopped, Bravo was blamed for us losing games when clearly, our attacking press had halted....KDB's form dipped, the CB's were being swapped around, as were the full backs, to try and find a solution....none of which worked.

Aguero suddenly realised his form of the previous season and he went on a mini-run of goals and we seemed more stable at the back....conceding only heavily against Leicester and Everton, which were anomalies. Bravo was then dropped and Willy came in.

TLMLF was brought back into the fold prior to Xmas and looked like he had lost weight and was rejuvenated, but that quickly faded back into his true self. Without Gundogan, Ferandinho and TLMLF were tasked with being the creative and attacking driving force in MF....but sadly, Fernandinho's form took a lull as well at this time, in addition to him serving previous match bans....which left us exposed in MF. Garcia was brought in and tried, but it's hard to expect a kid to play 'our' style to a level that Pep wants - but he did OK.

Meanwhile, Chelsea put in their usual pragmatic 2-1, 1-0 wins, picking up points, Liverpool looked incredible with Mane and Coutinho pulling the strings and Spurs hit a purple patch with Kane scoring with nearly every shot on goal.....United meanwhile, were just an LVG-style team but with Mourinho in charge - Zlatan consistently getting them a point or a winning goal, playing dire football. Arsenal meanwhile, lost their way with injuries as well.

We got Monaco in the next round of the CL and witnessed one of the best games of football, I've personally watched.....5-3, coming from behind and scoring some wonderful goals.

Chelsea weren't in the CL so could concentrate on the PL. Liverpool were out of the Europa League, so they could do the same, as could Arsenal. United were playing Thursday night football against what, can only be described as pub teams, but still hovering around 6th position in the PL.
Spurs got dumped out early, leaving them to focus solely, on the PL and FA Cup.

City, as we know, went to Monaco where we should have gone through, especially with a 2 goal advantage....but once again, our Achilles heal struck...we just couldn't finish off great chances..one would have seen us through, but we missed one after another after another and we went out.

All the time, the other teams were fresh each week and we had to contend with the FA Cup as well....and where we stand, is that we play Arsenal in the semi-final and we are fighting for a top 4 place, 4 points ahead of United in 5th, with them still to play at home....but we can now focus on the run-in, knowing we only have the semi to contend with. Injured players are now potentially coming back soon....Vinny has managed 90 mins for the first time in the PL this season.....so the semi-final will be massive.

Meanwhile, United are in 6th and Arsenal in 5th....4 points behind us with game in hand....and we are 2 points behind LFC in 3rd and we've got a game in hand on them.

So....at the start of the season, what would everyone's realistic expectation be, considering everyone in the media said that Pep would need a season to get used to the league with his style of play?
Personally, and I've not checked, but I said:

Top 4, Cup win and a run in the CL.

So far, we're top 4, we're in the semi's of the FA Cup, but we lost in the round of 16 to Monaco in the CL.....but if we finish top 4 and win the FA Cup, will that be a failure for Pep? I don't think so, but I'm sure other will have an opinion on this.

Spurs and Pocchetino and have improved.

Chelsea have improved and have had no CL football.

LFC have massively improved their team.

United have broken world record transfer fees.

Arsenal have spent big for them.

So far, after our game in hand, the only team ahead us could be Chelsea and Spurs....one of them won't win the FA Cup....and Chelsea look like they should win the PL.

Let's see how Chelsea do next season when back in the CL.....it really does make a massive difference. The top 6 teams have all improved massively, so the PL is tighter than it's ever been. No team have a god given right to win it....regardless of Manager.

Next season, we are guaranteed to improve the squad defensively and bring in more fresh, younger legs. Money won't be an issue, but I'm certain, Pep will go all out to ensure he gets the defensive he wants, to supplement the exciting attackers he's brought in.

Disappointed? Yeah, I guess we could have gone further in the CL, but we wouldn't have beaten other top teams with our defence and style of play......League Cup - really not arsed. Pep played a load of kids, which we were all crying out for and we lost narrowly, even being the better team.

FA Cup still on as is a top 4 finish.

Chelsea may win the PL but that't it.
Spurs may win fuck all but finish top 4.
LFC may not finish in the top 4 and win nothing.
United may not finish in the top 4 and win the Mickey Mouse cup.
Arsenal may miss out on top 4 and get beat by us in the semi final, so win nothing.

We could win the FA Cup and finish top 4....so it wouldn't be too bad if we did.

I'm positive that Pep will get who he wants this summer and this style of play will see an incredible team next season with 4 or 5 new players. Very Happy


Last edited by blueboy on Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:24 pm

I'm going on a two week holiday in the summer. I'll read your novel then... Smile
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:29 pm

Razz Razz Razz ...told you it was long, but knowing you, you'd still argue the toss.

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:21 pm

Knowing me, I read it all. Whilst most of what you say is true, Pep's also made some mistakes. I'll say it again, we've got 4 FBs the wrong side of 30. We didn't need Gundogan to be better than last year. Sane and Jesus are welcome additions. Most wouldn't be too happy that we bought a player that was injured and had been injured a lot over the last two years or so.

If Pep had got even one of the FBs we so desperately need, we'd have been a better team. If he'd got two, then I think we'd be right up there.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:46 pm

So...you wouldn't want to replace a player who has been a complete waste of space for 2 years in TLMLF, but you'd replace a FB instead?

Don't forget, for large portions of this season, Kolorov has actually done OK....we've conceded because of the lack of legs in MF....supporting the defence in counter attacks.

Yes, we'd all of liked new FB's at the beginning of the season, but we strengthened in other areas, and as you've said on numerous occasions, if our attacking MF's and strikers would have taken the chances in the games we lost or drew....we'd be very very close to Chelsea right now - with a shit and old defence...... Wink

So to just isolate the defence as a problem and blame Pep for where we are...seems like a 'blame someone' stance, rather than looking at the bigger picture.

As always, just my opinion.....but I get where your argument is coming from...even though I disagree, hence why I tried to explain my stance on this season rather than just saying "it's not Pep's fault".

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:58 pm

skyblueoz wrote:Some people are disappointed with Pep but I really believe the expectation fuelled in some part by the media was because of who he is & his persona he would just walk the premier his battle would be with the moany one & City united would be top 2.

Yes it hasn't panned out as well as I would have wanted but I am 100% behind him to put it all together when he has his team playing his way. We got him in because he is the best around he played a certain style with Barca & Bayern & that is what he will implement here sooner rather than later with the right personnel. A Little patience is required & keep expectations in check.

Even the best can make mistakes & I am pretty sure he didn't expect Bravo to be as wank  as has proved to be or Nolito to be as underwhelming as he has been.

I can't believe Den reckons Sane has been poor for 3/4 of the season. He arrived injured made his debut as sub against united was in and out of the side for the 1st few months mainly due to niggling injuries & peps style of play. The season has just reached the 3/4 mark so I would suggest Sane has at the very least looked the business in the second half of the season I personally think he looked a good signing from his 1st appearance.

The same applies in my book to Gundogan who came into the side off the back of a very serious injury & certainly showed me he was a player whom could hold his own very easily in the premier league. His performances against Barcelona & West Brom were standouts for me and he looked to be a very good signing.

Gabriel looks class.

Couldn't agree more Oz with that post.... Wink

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:49 pm

I can apportion blame all over the place if I want. Consistently passing out from the back when we haven't got the personnel to do it. Not having 'legs' in MF. Having old and useless (pretty much) FBs who can't play the way Pep wants (and even defend properly). Attackers who aren't clinical enough and don't always run around the way Pep wants.

Maybe I'd have preferred a half Pep style approach, especially when you finally admit that certain players can't do what you want. You could call it a half way house of sorts. Maybe that wouldn't have worked either and I'd be writing complaining about the half way house approach.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:03 pm

Just remember this. If this had been Pellegrini's season, many would be screaming for his head.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:23 pm

But you're just pointing out the obvious poor elements without any evidence as to why.....and then omitting anything good about this season.

So, as it stands, we could end up in 3rd and win an FA Cup and that would still be a shit season according to you.....the season isn't over. If we miss out on the top 4 and don't win the FA Cup....I'm absolutely with you - it'll be a shit season, but it's not finished yet.

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:33 pm

We could still win it according to you...
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:38 pm

WHY? The personnel aren't good enough to do what Pep wants and he's too stubborn to do something else?

He isn't good enough at the man management side of things as he talks about the players not playing or not listening to him.

He didn't buy the right players (for whatever reasons) in the positions that really mattered.

He was damn unlucky that Chelsea don't have CL, Spurs have young, hungry players, Liverpool don't have European footy etc. etc.

Come on, we are 4 points ahead of a Utd team (and they have a game in hand) that has had Martial, Lindgard, Carrick, Rooney, Rashford, Fellatio, Jones playing a fair amount of games between them this season.
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by blueboy on Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:17 am

Topdawg wrote:WHY? The personnel aren't good enough to do what Pep wants and he's too stubborn to do something else? But it's a philosophy that's been instilled in the first team down through the academy. What's the point of trying to play a system for one season then completely ripping it up and starting again? He's trying to lay the foundation for players like Sane, Gabriel, Sterling, KDB etc...the future. It's not just about 1 season, it's a long-term project and he's said that.

He isn't good enough at the man management side of things as he talks about the players not playing or not listening to him. Totally disagree with that. If you listen to any journalist (and they were debating managers on the tv and radio this week), the one Manager they all said "keeps it in-house" is Pep. The only time he's come out and said he was really disappointed in the players was Monaco for the first half and the Everton game.

He didn't buy the right players (for whatever reasons) in the positions that really mattered.
He could have bought 2 new full backs and another CB then kept Navas on the wing with Sterling, but he bought Sane who is going to be a great player. He bought Gundogan who was doing really well to replace TLMLF, he bought John Stones who will improve massively with a new CB next season and the exciting Gabriel.....yes, he could have bought full backs as well and he tried for Laporte - but you're asking him to basically buy a whole new team and no Manager does that. Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

He was damn unlucky that Chelsea don't have CL, Spurs have young, hungry players, Liverpool don't have European footy etc. etc......think that was point in my long post.

Come on, we are 4 points ahead of a Utd team (and they have a game in hand) that has had Martial, Lindgard, Carrick, Rooney, Rashford, Fellatio, Jones playing a fair amount of games between them this season.
And 27 goal Zlatan, £90m Pogba, £27m Eric Bailey....Martial was excellent last season, so was Rashford...so I'm not sure what your point is.

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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Topdawg on Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:45 am

My point about Utd is that they are poor overall. I don;t care what they spent on Pogba as he's not done owt.

Pep could have got some defenders as well as the MF and attackers he did. Change 8 players? Why not? What he did last summer hasn't really worked overall. Yet. Maybe it will given time.

So talk has been kept in house, but he's said a couple of times at least that the team didn't do what he said and we've seen a few games where they just don't seem to be up and at it.

A philosophy is worthless if you don't have the players to fulfill it. If he didn't have the players why bang your head against a brick wall?
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Re: Pellegrini....

Post by Paulpowersleftfoot on Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:54 am

Lack of a plan B has been the problem for the last 2 managers 
Can't see much difference with Pep so far,the lack of focus on such a porous defence has been incredibly negligent from such a lauded genius
I've been distinctly underwhelmed by him so far
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