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Topdawg

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The Pep debate.....

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The Pep debate.....

Post by Topdawg on Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:15 am

Some on here love him. Others are not so easily pleased.

What's your view (trying to remain objective)?

We'll not win anything this season. And may not get 4th (what sort of trophy is top 4?). But we shouldn't expect to win something every year should we? I'm sure that our owners expected us to be much better on the pitch than we have been for the last 3 seasons. Since we last won the league, I think we've had a struggle to make top 4 each season. That shouldn't be the front we are fighting on. We should be challenging for the league.

I've no doubt that we will get better players next season (especially full backs, a CB and MFs) but will we just be buying very expensive players hoping that they will fit in?

Yesterday, we looked knackered and devoid of ideas after 70 minutes. Tiki taka can be great, but surely not at our pace? When we zinged it around, we got them out of shape very quickly and easily, but we aren't generally moving the ball around at a fast enough pace.

Some Say give Pep time to implement his ideas and systems with the right players. I fear that we'll never have everything exactly right to implement his ideas. There will always be something amiss. Some reason why we aren't firing at a high enough level.

I'll give him time because he's of such stature that he can get us the best players in the world and the future could be exciting.

I hope that we will at least challenge for the league next season.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Nijinsky on Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:21 am

Is Pep a case of the emperor's new clothes?

What has he actually done for us. 

Made us a laughing stock over the way he has managed the goal keepers.

Who has been signed since he took over that have made any difference at all.

Sane  Been good in patches but yesterday looked out of his depth
Bravo No need to say anything
Gundogan. Who knows injured when he arrived and is still injured
Jesus.  could be another sick note.
Stones. Could be the one signing that pep got right
Nolito. Hotheaded version of Navas

Playing Navas at full back against Sanchez was an accident just waiting to happen


All the money that has been spent on the academy how many youngsters have progressed ? Probably not all Pep's fault, but he hasn't given any youngsters a real chance.


And finally replacing Sergio with Delph yesterday?
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by shakencity on Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:13 am

As far as im concerned this season has been an extremely poor one, well below our high expectations anyway. Pep's has been the architect of this imo too, whether City are in a transitional period or not. His selections, signings and decisions have been baffling at times and this has to improve over the summer and next season. 

He needs to spend the money he'll be given this summer..and spend it well. His reputation requires and expects to bring trophies, if none are delivered by him next season he can go for me.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by TMG on Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:44 am

Yep I agree Den. He has to be given another season but I'm not confident
Some of his ideas and decisions are baffling - Keeping faith in Clownio is just stubborn & arrogant especially when getting rid of 1 of the best GKs in Jo Hart
Playing Navas anywhere is just plain stupid but putting him up against the best attackers in the world like Sanchez is beyond belief
We will have to bring in 5 or 6 players I reckon which doesn't auger well for next season either coz it will be basically a new back 3/4 & other arrivals
which will be unsettling and will take some time to gel
Having 70-80 per cent possession in matches is just not working for us Teams are able to defend in numbers & soak up the pressure & then hit us on the break or
wait until we r too knackered to pounce I'm fully expecting the Rags & Leicester coming up to do exactly that & yet Pep will have no answer
Very disappointing season & I fear for next year but I guess we have to remember what things used to be like and count our lucky stars we r moaning about
not finishing with a trophy or top 4 instead of relegation battles

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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Topdawg on Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:43 pm

He says Aguero was injured and is a doubt for the derby. We've have had so much bad luck this season with decisions and injuries
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by blueboy on Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:17 pm

Think I've already given my view numerous times over this debate, so I won't bother again. Especially, as my view means I obviously settle for less than some others. Wink

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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by skyblueoz on Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:50 pm

I do think we see what we want to see & not what is actually happening at times. I was watching the match with the perth branch of the citys supporters club. The moaning & groaning that went on when Sergio was subbed. I said about 5 mins before that he was limping & looks dead on his feet, I knew instinctively something was wrong & was not surprised to see him being subbed. I was also not surprised with Sterling being subbed either as he had been injured slightly these past 2 weeks in the lead up to this game. I think peps idea was to give him the last 20 mins but the injury to silva put paid to that so he played the 70 mins instead.

My only criticism of pep in this game was he should have started with a traditional right back in Zabba, this is not a criticism of Navas who would have been far better using his pace as an impact sub in the final 10 mins of normal time.

As said next season will be telling although a fit Kompany will benefit any centre back pairing. 2 Full backs leftside & 1 rightside, Keeper Midfield box to box,Midfield Holding, & a striker would be on my list of purchases. I know that is around 7 signings but in all honesty a full pre season & squad rotation will have them ready for the new season.  

I also hope the introduction of a couple of youngsters from the eds may solve some of our problems yoyo if he signs a new contract Garcia to get more game time Gunn to get some good 1st team experience they would be the main ones with the returning maffeo, Zinchenko, Roberts, Unal, Angelino & horsfield all given the opportunity in the squad. Obviously not all will make the grade & some will be gone . But with the list of players we will potentially lose then the opportunity should be there for 1 or 2.

That also does not include some advancement from under 18's like Sancho, Diaz, Hernandez, Foden, Lattibeaudiere etc etc.


A very exciting season ahead I think.

Sorry it was long winded.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Topdawg on Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:55 pm

Unal won't get a work permit. Don't think Zinchenko will either. Can't see our kids being given a run if games to develop like they do at other clubs.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by skyblueoz on Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:26 pm

Don't think many kids at other clubs get a run of games Spurs probably being the exception. The other clubs tend to have them in & and around the 1st team squad with the odd game here & There. That is what I mean by integrating the kids into the 1st team. Zinchenko signed a 3 yr deal so we shouldn't have any problem playing him for 2 years unless they have to renew his permit every year. Unal has already been promised the spre season tour so if their were permit issues then I think the wouldnt' have been included. We also have Marlos Moreno on loan & Zucculini. The latter I expect will be let go.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Topdawg on Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:21 pm

It's different playing some friendly games in the Yates and getting a work permit in the uk
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Topdawg on Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:23 pm

Most teams will play a couple of younger players. Spurs played lane (eventually), alli, dier, rose, walker and some others. Burnley have played trippier, keane, mee and other. Other clubs have played a few kids long enough for them to make it
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by blueboy on Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:41 pm

This is not to anyone on here, it's a general observation.

Can we put this: "Spurs play the academy players" debate to bed? Why do we always use them as a template? They've won nothing. They won nothing all last season, have won nothing all this season...yet their manager is lauded as some inspirational maverick. Won....fuck....all.

Kane spent 3 seasons out on loan at various clubs...from 2011 to 2014 he spent loan spells with Leyton Orient, Millwall, Norwich and Leicester.

Trippier was bought from Burnley and has only played 13 games for Spurs.

Alli was bought for £5m, Dier for £4m...neither are Spurs home grown players.

I like the way Spurs play, but let's not use them as model of how a team should be run. Repeat....they've still won NOTHING with these players.

Yesterday...let's not forget, we had a perfectly good goal disallowed for a change!  Rolling Eyes  Their players could easily have seen two yellows if the ref had any bollocks whatsoever....we hit the post, we hit the bar. All potential game-changing incidents. Yes, Arsenal scored 2 goals, which the keeper had no chance.....but if we score one and then get a second, the game completely changes. We lose Silva to a terrible tackle from behind, and I agree with Oz, Aguero looked to have taken a knock and with the derby coming up and Silva already off the pitch, Pep was clearly concerned.

I heard plenty of City fans on TS driving to the airport this morning...and to be honest, they're a fucking joke some of them. One said that Pep should go and he has no clue how to build a team!!! WTF??? 8 months in his tenure, this prick wants a Manager who redesigned a Barca team who had won fuck all for ages, into a team that was considered THE BEST EVER SEEN....and this retard wants Pep to admit he's 
not a good manager and he should go?? Give your fucking head a wobble!

Pep will get the players he wants in the summer in the areas he knows we need improving.....yes, I personally thought we may have won something this season, so a tad disappointed to go out yesterday, but once again, there were extenuating circumstances as to why we lost a game we shouldn't have....THE FUCKING USELESS REFS AGAIN!

The sooner video technology comes in, the better.

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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Topdawg on Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:51 pm

I used Spurs as an example as they were mentioned by someone else. They struggled with their purchases once they sold Bale but they did buy plenty of young players and that policy seems to be paying some dividends now. They've also made some bad buys too so it's swings and roundabouts. But, I'm guessing here, they've given their younger players enough games to show what they are made of and the good ones have shown their stuff.

Maybe our kids haven't shown enough when been given their few chances. I defy anyone to say hey didn't think Kelechi would make it 12 months ago. He had plenty of minutes and scored plenty of goals.

We've been damn unlucky with refereeing decisions this season. Yesterday, some tackles from behind looked shocking, yet no yellow cards were issued. I think they should have got 2-3 yellows early on and that would have made a difference to them clattering into us. And it looked like Sanchez should have got a yellow for a callous pull when we had a chance to break. We can hark back to the Chelsea and Spurs games at home. Just those two matches could have seen us up to 3rd only 3 points behind Chelsea with all to play for.

I'm sure other teams could point to bad decisions costing them too.

We've also lost some important players to injury. Gundogan, Kompany and Jesus could well have been the spine of our team for the 2nd half of the season.

Everyone loses players to injury so we have to temper that reason a little, but they were big players to lose when they are your best defender and younger players with the legs we've badly needed so often this season.

I've seen some good signs with the football we've played at times this season, but I also saw some good stuff from Mark Hughes' team too.

I've been very disappointed that we've failed to fire far too often this season and, far too often, our players don't look up for it.

Right before they scored their 2nd, I told the fella next to me that we didn't look up for this the way Arsenal did. You could sense they wanted it a whole lot more than us at that stage and they expected to get something.

Pep will have to do something special next season to win me over. Remember, for all his faults, MP won us the league, two league cups and got to the semi final of the CL in his three years in charge. Even equaling that record will be tough for Pep and, sadly, I was expecting more.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Strange Blue on Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:52 pm

I think we are lucky to have him. I say this with no sense of irony, he is trying something so different not only for this team, but different from any in European football & he does need time.  Not Wegner-esq time, but at least 2 seasons to show what he can do.  This season has been a big disappointment to me make no mistake, but his approach is radical to say the least. I get what he is trying to do with the goal keeper maybe Bravo is not the one to carry it off neither is Joe though. With a better & younger back 4 or 3 it can be done. Bar maybe 4 games this season we lost or drew by small margins sort out the obvious glaring deficiencies at the back (and with Pep the defence is part of the attack through the build up) and we will sweep the trophies next season. No surprise that the team at the top has had to play no European football will be a different story for Chelsea next season.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by skyblueoz on Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:16 am

The reason I called out spurs was in their team at times over the last couple of seasons we have seen players like Mason, Winks, Carroll , Townsend, Rose, Kane, Livermore  & probably a few others come through the ranks, Whilst not all have made it they have managed to forge a career at 1 club or another. Trippier left City & plied his trade at Burnley in a lower division, so can hardly be used as a measuring stick for bringing through youth as most players in youth teams drop divisions for eventual 1st team football & very few rise back to the top divisions.

Agree with SB that we are lucky to have Pep & time is definitely needed to bring in the players that can encompass his style of play, We have seen glimpses this season as to what can be achieved if we can keep it up on a consistent basis.
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skyblueoz

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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Wensdi on Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:12 pm

I also think we are lucky to have him.  We probably will lose that 4th spot though as we haven't had any luck really this season - with poor calls, non calls etc.  He will come under a lot of scrutiny if that happens - but I believe next season is the litmus test for Pep.  Just hope he chooses any new signings wisely.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Strange Blue on Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:06 am

Wensdi wrote:I also think we are lucky to have him.  We probably will lose that 4th spot though as we haven't had any luck really this season - with poor calls, non calls etc.  He will come under a lot of scrutiny if that happens - but I believe next season is the litmus test for Pep.  Just hope he chooses any new signings wisely.


Even if we draw or lose tonight I'm far more optimistic about where we will finish. Rags have to play away to Arsenal & Spurs. Liverpool only 2 points ahead, but have played 2 more games than us. Arsenal will gain some ground, but are too far behind now. Here is how I see everyone finishing:
1. Chelsea.
2. Spurs.
3. Man city.
4. Liverpool
5. Arsenal.
6. Rags.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:35 am

Arsenal are 6 points behind Liverpool with 2 games in hand.

If we win tonight, that really should be top 4 sewn up for us as the other teams will lose points playing each other and we've got mainly home games left.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Strange Blue on Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:51 am

Unfortunately 2 of our home games are against Crystal Palace & Leicester both of them nearly sneaked draws last night against Arsenal & Spurs. Away games v Middlesbrough & Watford should = 6 points. Home game v West Brom another 3 points. Overall the odds are in our favour as long as there is no complacency.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:01 pm

If Pep let's this slip out of our grasp now...
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Strange Blue on Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:04 pm

In all honesty Im expecting a 1-1 draw tonight hope I'm wrong, but the moaning one allways sets his teams up like that for the big away games.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Moonchester on Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:58 pm

I thin we will win, but would settle for a draw right now..
anything but defeat is OK tonight given the remaining games of all the teams around us..
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by skyblueoz on Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:18 pm

Once palace & Leicester are mathematically safe that could also play into our hands as they can look forward to summer holidays.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Strange Blue on Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:45 pm

skyblueoz wrote:Once palace & Leicester are mathematically safe that could also play into our hands as they can look forward to summer holidays.
I hope so we normally do well agsinst Sam's teams, but their recent form has been really good.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by skyblueoz on Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:56 pm

Leicester tend to rely on the pace of Vardy & the guile of Mahrez. We should know all about them now. Palace the pace of Zaha & the brick shithouse that is Benteke, Vinny will know how to Nullify Benteke & zaha is like a headless chicken great pace & skill but runs out of brains, when it matters most he caused Chelsea all sorts of problems but more composure he could of had a hatrick himself.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:09 pm

Of course we didn't know about Leicester before they battered us at their place...
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Wensdi on Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:07 pm

Still feel the disappointment of losing to Arsenal in the FA Cup - so hence - not very positive about today's match.  Lady luck seems to have deserted us.  I'd take a draw at this point.
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Re: The Pep debate.....

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:32 pm

A draw would be good if we win at the weekend.
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