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V.. A.. R..

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V.. A.. R..

Post by Moonchester on Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:58 pm

Just seen them use a VAR in the chelski v Arsenil game.

Kid goes past Moses in the box, gets clipped but manages to stagger 1 pace before going over.
Ref gives goal kick (easy option)
has a word in his ear..
Continues with goal kick.

Sooo, question is this..
if it has to be a clear and obvious error by the ref (or whatever it is worded as),
unless it's a howler of a mistake, justice still can't be done, as for me, it should have been a pen and he was penalised for trying to stay on his feet in a way?
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by Topdawg on Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:28 pm

They said hat was the difference when Bellerin kicked hazard's foot the other week?
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by skyblueoz on Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:16 am

My only annoyance with var is the fact the ref on the field has the option to go and view the incident. The bulk of arguments against var are that it will hold up the game waiting for reviews to be scrutinised. Why cant a ref up in the stands or wherever make that decision because he will have immediate access to the incident from all camera angles. As a qualified ref surely we can accept that decision.
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by Topdawg on Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:48 am

The ref has the option. He doesn't have to look for himself if he accepts an opposing opinion of the VAR ref. I guess it's only if they are unsure themselves and the VAR ref is also unsure. But how often will that happen? I don't think it'll slow the game down that much at all. We're not even playing 60 active minutes in many games as it is.
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by leopold on Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:53 am

Given the way some of our opponents play against us, I think even 60 minutes is a stretch!  Even Bristol were doing it the other day, their keeper had 15% possession...

The refs should accept the view of the VAR ref if it is in opposition.  And if it's still not clear, then the old rule of "benefit of the doubt" should apply.
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by Moonchester on Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:07 am

in it's current form the way the VAR is set up is to give benefit of the doubt to the on-field ref...

not actually to get the right call made..
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by Topdawg on Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:34 pm

It's like cricket and the umpire's call. The umpire makes a call on the field and the evidence to overule that call has to be overwhelming. If it's close, go with the infield decision.

It was implemented to avoid obvious howlers and, for the main part, its worked except they use challenges (which I don't like as they are restricted).

There will be some obvious howlers that will get overturned like diving for a penalty or Kane/Alli/Murphy/Puncheon escaping obvious red cards.
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by Topdawg on Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:34 pm

It's like cricket and the umpire's call. The umpire makes a call on the field and the evidence to overule that call has to be overwhelming. If it's close, go with the infield decision.

It was implemented to avoid obvious howlers and, for the main part, its worked except they use challenges (which I don't like as they are restricted).

There will be some obvious howlers that will get overturned like diving for a penalty or Kane/Alli/Murphy/Puncheon escaping obvious red cards.
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by blueboy on Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:59 pm

Not really read much about how it works, or how they intend to use it...

Wouldn't it be simple to just let the game go with the decision and have a panel of 3 VAR's to watch anything that is defined worthy of watching (replays and they have 30 secs to all agree): pens, dives, serious foul play etc....and then call the ref to say VAR states "it was a penalty"..."it was dive"....the game then stops, the incident is shown on a large screen (to show why they've given it) and the game continues after the decision (pen, red card, whatever)...at the time the incident happened. If the incident confirms the refs decision, which it may do most of the time, the game doesn't stop...or the opinion of 3 VAR's takes precedent?
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by Topdawg on Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:22 pm

you could have 3 VAR refs sat to make decisions independent of each other. May need all three to press the same button for onfield decision to be overturned. 

If the ref gives a penalty or a dive, ten the game is automatically stopped anyway. I don't see how it's affecting the game. If he waves play on (like last night) then the VAR refs can make a 30 second unanimous decision to overturn. Game carries on and then shown on big screen.
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by leopold on Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:27 pm

Topdawg wrote:It was implemented to avoid obvious howlers and, for the main part, its worked except they use challenges (which I don't like as they are restricted).
They use a limited challenges rule in tennis, where a player gets three to use when they believe a wrong call has been made.  If their challenge is upheld, they get the decision in their favour, but if it's overruled they lose a challenge.  I can see why they've done this, as it means they can't just challenge every single decision, which would make matches last forever and bring the whole system into disrepute.  And tennis is a game with natural breaks.  Imagine if infinite challenges were allowed in football, we'd barely see any actual football at all!
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by Moonchester on Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:41 pm

Kane, Alli & Puncheon all got a yellow cards..
so under the new system, that is not a clear and obvious error, so would not get upgraded to red??  or am I missing a bit on that?
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by skyblueoz on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:23 pm

As stated earlier I don't get why the ref can go over and look at the decision leave it to the var ref to make the call. In Australia , Germany & more recently in Italy some decisions have taken up to 4 minutes to decide because the on field ref has taken an eternity watching back the evidence from different angles. It has caused a lot of division within the players, pundits, league administrators even the regions delegates, & journalists. They have all put their tuppence worth in most to scorn its use. I say don't give them the chance.
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by leopold on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:46 pm

I'd agree with that, Oz.  It's bad enough we don't get our full 90 minutes of football as it is, without the possibility of losing another 20-30 minutes while refs take their time over multiple decisions.
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by Topdawg on Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:11 pm

Ref shouldn't look at the screen himself. 3 VAR refs, sat in separate rooms, independent of one another and all three need to agree to overrule the ref. They have 30 seconds in which to make a decision If it's a howler, they won't even need 30 seconds.
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by blueboy on Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:09 pm

Agree Dawg....as I said, I don't know much about it, but it seems the easiest way around it and actually does two things:

1. reduces decision time
2. take the onus away from refs and all the 'hate' that we give them.

30 secs...no unified decision, game carries on.

BUT...the crowd must see the reason why, not just the fans at home if it gets a VAR decision....otherwise, game carries on, as the refs will just use it for difficult decisions, to make sure....and we'll end up with the NFL.  Sleep
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Re: V.. A.. R..

Post by Topdawg on Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:53 pm

Just stick it on the big screens VAR decision pending like in cricket. They can even say why very quickly. Even get it sponsored
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Re: V.. A.. R..

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