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who's gotta go?

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who's gotta go?

Post by Topdawg on Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:55 am

After last night's poor showing by our 2nd string, who would you let go and who would you give more time?

I'll start you off with the easiest to let go:
Yaya
Danilo is borderline for me, but I'd rather bring back Maffeo and Angelino than keep Danny.  
Zinky isn't a left back and isn't good enough for midfield.
Bravo should still go for me, but i could see him staying another season.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:21 pm

Think we'd need to see more from Muric. Gunn has done well at Norwich by all accounts, but I watched him the other week for Norwich and he had a mare.
Not sure Bravo has done anything wrong this season. Far worse No.2's out there.

TLMLF...don't need to say any more on him. Should have been binned off 2 years ago. Absolutely pathetic.

Danilo. Just no consistency with this player. 2 good games, 2 shit ones. Last night he was abysmal...and that's a worry. Wouldn't be arsed if he was sold. Maffeo looks are far better fit as a No.2 RB than Danilo.

Zinchenko has been pretty good lately. Last night looked like he'd gotten all Billy Big Bollocks, and his performances lately, seemed to think he could drop his intensity and make slap-dash passes. Yes, he's not a defender...but neither is Delph. No excuses. You don't have to be an all-out defender in a Pep team, you just have to be positionally aware and calm under pressure....he was neither last night. Spell back on the bench may do him good.

Laporte needs time...but he was awful in the first game where he came under pressure.

Can't see Tosin staying. Loan or be sold.

So in reality, we could sell 3 and buy 3 in the summer.

We definitely need another striker, another CDMF and possibly another winger/attacking LB.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Topdawg on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:13 pm

The thing for me is that if we play 8,9 or 10 first teamers, then players such as ZInchenko, Danilo, even Bernardo can look better than they actually are. They are helped through games with other players being in the correct position or helping them along. 

But when you have too many 2nd stringers, there's no guidance and leadership. And some of the really easy and obvious passes just aren't on. Silva or Dino or Kev make the move and the pas sis obvious for Zinky. Yaya lolling around and maybe the same easy pass isn't on.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by ManCityMan on Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:15 pm

Or...........maybe they were naive enough to think they did not have to put in the same amounts of effort as they believed we were already through, they thought  they could stroll through that game especially after scoring a 5th goal early doors. 
Pep has to take responsibility for that performance, he picked the team and they were either not properly coached in what was expected of them in this game or they were simply not good enough.
To be fair were a team that was thrown together for this second leg in the knowledge that the tie was secured in the first leg. Unlike the regular team in the first leg, this team were unaccustomed to playing together as a team and it showed, Pep could see this early on but he made little effort to address it until it was too late, he seemed content to concede a couple of stupid goals and still go through. If they had scored another soon after the second, it could have become very uncomfortable.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by leopold on Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:30 pm

I think the bulk of our problems last night were down to selection, although I'm not about to suggest we bin Pep off for it.

TLF isn't up to it, and hasn't been for years, so having him as captain was sheer lunacy. He showed no desire to drive us forwards and this lack of pressure told on the rest of the team (apart from Sané, who appears not to have got the memo it was a night to slack off). I doubt we'll see him in a City shirt again.

I'm not going to go in hard on Laporte, he was let down badly by Stones, who I though was even worse.  I'm not saying Stones is bad, but after his injury he's looked a bit out of sorts, so pairing him with the new boy was a rash decision. He'd have fared better with Ota alongside him.  But then our entire defence was wrong: Zinchenko and Danilo aren't established enough either, so we were basically playing a back four who are almost complete strangers on the pitch.

Bravo, at times, reminded me of Calamity.  Plus, they had two shots on target and scored twice, so it's hard for me to defend him, aside from the fact it seemed he had no defence to speak of in front of him.

For me, the biggest disappointment was Jesus. I don't know what he was doing on the pitch, but he didn't ever seem to get himself into a decent position, save for his goal early on.

I don't know if there's anyone we're going to sell specifically, aside from Mangala, but I'd agree we do need a bit more shoring up in defence and we do need a striker, one who's going to make a nuisance of themselves in the box.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Topdawg on Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:53 pm

Bravo had no chance with the first goal but should have done better with the 2nd.

You could say Jesus was coming back from injury and needs more time, but he was hardly pulling any trees up before his injury either.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:36 pm

I get the points on Laporte...hence why I said he needs more time. Stones is coming back from an injury, so to partner him with Laporte was only asking for trouble IMO, especially when Zinky and Danilo have awful games.

Bravo...not sure you can blame him. The strike for the first he had no chance. The strike for the second you would have expected Laporte to at least have tried to block it....and it was at serious pace. No blame for Bravo for me personally.

As for Jesus...don't agree. Coming back from a bad injury...plus, he's still a kid learning his trade. What I would say though...is that he played far too many minutes last night than he should have. Aguero should have had at least 20 mins in his place.

I will also lay the blame at Pep's door for this one. I said when the team was announced....it'll be nothing but SLOW, SLOW, SLOW...which is always the case. TLMLF slows everything down, does fuck all in a defensive point of view (was guilty of giving a lazy pass away in MF and then not bothering to track their right sided player who assisted the second goal)...and if Pep thinks we'll play anywhere like we normally do with Gundogan (great when attacking, fucking garbage from a defensive point of view) and TLMLF....then he's delusional.

Bernardo was absolutely NON-EXISTENT in the whole second half. Sane and Diaz were the only players who actually tried to make something happen. Foden was asking for the ball time and time again from Gundogan, TLMLF and Danilo...but it went back and back time and time again. 

Never, do I want to see TLMLF in a City shirt again...he was a fucking disgrace.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Topdawg on Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:59 pm

I think you need to watch that 2nd goal again with your anti Yaya goggles off. He was doing the chasing and others let the goalscorer go free.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:17 pm

Chasing????? You're spot on there....he chased like fuck, got turned around like some spinning top, then allowed a simple pass to the goals scorer.... Rolling Eyes
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Strange Blue on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:40 pm

To me I’m puzzled by many people’s reactions (not just talking about people on here) the aggregate score is the only thing that matters, we went through mission accomplished. We had no injuries to key players, fringe players got a run out, the kids got a run out, to me win-win. No team in the world has a 2nd string that is anywhere near as good as the first choice 11 & no team ever will. Having said that those players can be useful squad players as long you use only 2-3 in a squad.



Last edited by Strange Blue on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Topdawg on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:02 pm

blueboy wrote:Chasing????? You're spot on there....he chased like fuck, got turned around like some spinning top, then allowed a simple pass to the goals scorer.... Rolling Eyes
As I said, not objective, agenda led argument. The other players were far more culpable. I wouldn’t let Laporte off the hook because of poor players around him. He was shit as well. Foden huffed and puffed but only sané and Diaz stood out for me.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:53 am

OK...you clearly think I'm being subjective because I haven't liked him since he slagged the club off....therefore, to try and demonstrate my objectivity in this discussion....see the below video. 
Their first goal starts at 0:50. In the lead up, their player with the ball has Bernardo behind him (apart from fouling him and taking one for the team, not much he can do) and Stones going to close their player down. Danilo is covering Stones because if their player rounds Stones, he through on goal. Zinchenko is marking another player at the back...but their goalscorer is on the edge of the box as the action starts, with TLMLF ball watching and not even bothering to support any of the defenders. 
Look at the position of TLMLF when their player scores....Zinchenko is trying to mark 2/3 players!

That's for the first goal....never mind the 2nd.

1:55...you don't see it, but just before it starts....TLMLF made an awful pass to Jesus that was intercepted (as the clip starts)....from the semi-circle to the corner flag, he had 10 seconds to stop the player making that cute pass inside.

Yes, I think Laporte could have stuck out a leg more...and yes, I think Sane could have tracked the runner....but for 10 seconds, TLMLF chased that player and never got one single tackle in. Where's the sensible 'take one for the team'?

So I am being objective...I've provided evidence for you. Wink

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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:03 am

Strange Blue wrote:

To me I’m puzzled by many people’s reactions (not just talking about people on here) the aggregate score is the only thing that matters, we went through mission accomplished. We had no injuries to key players, fringe players got a run out, the kids got a run out, to me win-win. No team in the world has a 2nd string that is anywhere near as good as the first choice 11 & no team ever will. Having said that those players can be useful squad players as long you use only 2-3 in a squad.



Completely disagree SB. It's never just about the win...even Pep says that. What was worrying about that performance, was the lack of implementing Pep's tactics. He was constantly telling Danilo, Gundogan and TLMLF to pass the ball wide quicker...they just didn't do it, instead, playing 100 passes backwards, sideways, all the while Diaz, Foden Jesus are making runs.

That's a massive worry. These are senior players, that if we get injuries, would have to step up in the big games...and they just didn't do it.

Also, winning breeds a winning mentality. You don't mind if you play well, but lose to a couple of screamers, or even lucky goals....the manner of the performance is what was worrying.

I think Pep has take most of the blame for making so many changes in one go. The MF had no legs and putting 2 CB's together who have hardly played was only asking for trouble.

Yes, players got rested...but if you've read any of Pep's books....he made the same mistake at Bayern by resting players when the title was won and they completely lost momentum - two season running and got knocked out of the CL. He said he would never do that again - but even though the first leg gave us a 4-0 lead, he did do it again and we lost at home to a bang average team. They were no better than a Crystal Palace.

Just my opinion....
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Strange Blue on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:45 am

"That's a massive worry. These are senior players, that if we get injuries, would have to step up in the big games...and they just didn't do it." But they have already done so & in big games throughout the season. Personally I wouldn't have made that many changes in one game, but then it was the closest thing to a dead rubber since the last group game when we had already qualified top of the group and since that loss we have gone from victory to victory & are on the target to make break more records in the PL. We are never going to have a season when we win every game nor is any other team in the world. I think the occasional meaningless loss is probably good medicine to make sure the squad dont become too complacent. 
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:50 am

When did we last make that many changes and "do it in big games" like you suggest?

I can't think of ANY.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:57 am

Also, if it was a meaningless loss...why was Pep so upset?

Think he used the words "very, very poor" and "they were making passes for the sake of passes and not passing it with intent".

It's not loss SB for me and never did I think we'd go all season without losing....it was the manner of the performance.

But anyway...onwards to Stoke on Monday when we'll see a full strength team.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Moonchester on Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:10 am

first half we played OK.. not great but as expected with the team that was out on the field.
second half, we starte just passing it round to waste time if you like, that got Pep's back up as he always wants to see attacking intent and that wasn't there.

Foden wasn't helped by Gundongan just running through him and not feeding the ball when he could on numerous occasions.
Sane was making runs and not being given the ball time and time again.

The second half performance was dire, as pep said, just passing for the sake of passing is not the game plan or acceptable. irrespective of who was at fault for their goals or not taking soft yellow cards.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Topdawg on Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:17 am

Maybe Yaya should have taken one for the team and fouled him in the box (if they ran through the penalty area) or just outside the box in a dangerous position.

Or maybe, just maybe, he should have forced him out wide and maybe, just maybe, he should have expected the rest of the fucking team to do something!
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:51 am

Ahh...so just pass the book and expect others to do his job for him....sounds about right.

Oh...and not once, was TLMLF anywhere near the player inside the box. All the play was outside the box, even the pass inside. Watch again.  Wink
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Strange Blue on Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:08 am

blueboy wrote:When did we last make that many changes and "do it in big games" like you suggest?

I can't think of ANY.


Maybe I've misunderstood what you were saying, but those players have all stepped up to replace injured / missing players like David, Delph etc.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:11 am

Yeah, one or two have replaced one or two first teamers.....agree with that. But to have that many in one game was folly. 

If you look at the games where Pep made a load of changes...they were the games we struggled in....Wolves, Bristol City.

But anyway...guess we're all going around in circles. Let's hope we don't see that type of performance (effort) again.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Strange Blue on Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:13 am

Agree with BB that Yaya was partly responsible for the goal, though Laporte should have done more & Bravo shouldn't have been beaten so easily at the near post. As to the game as a whole playing with Yaya in the team is like playing with 10 men he looks a shadow of even the player he was last season. I've not forgotten his talent at his peak when he made those charging runs etc, but having him anywhere near the team now is a liability. If we had Kevin in MF instead I think we would have enough quality in the team to have nicked a win.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:24 am

Agree...we all could see he was offering nothing and slowing everything down. Really surprised he didn't bring KDB on for 30 mins.

Oh well, he didn't and I'm sure they were all told what he thought of that performance. Can't see that apathy on Monday.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Topdawg on Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:28 pm

Let me tell you what would have happened if Yaya had taken one for the team and fouled their player and they scored from then free kick....

Bluey would have been screaming (pardon the pun) blue murder.

'what a fucking useless cnut'
'why foul him when there was no danger?'
'we had three men covering and they had no-one anywhere near to pass to'
'he's just a lazy cnut who couldn't be bothered chasing the guy'
'the fat cnut should have just pushed him out wide'

I think you get the picture.

I prefer to be more even handed when I apportion blame. Yaya did nothing for us during the game, but you can't really blame him for doing what he was supposed to do - take the guy wide so he couldn't shoot. It's hardly his fault that no-one picked up the run, Laporte didn't try to stop the shot and Bravo didn't try to stop the shot.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:49 pm

But you've just blown your argument out of the water and made it personal.

Even handed? Razz Razz Razz

He pushed the player wide, then got turned twice, without making a tackle (outside of the box) and then allowed the player to come back and play a simple ball inside Zinchenko...all without a challenge. We looked strong for all corners and free kicks, so you're talking about 'what-ifs'...I'm talking about what happened.

Any thoughts on the first goal? Razz Razz Razz
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Topdawg on Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:52 pm

i never got into the first goal, that was just you. I never contested that.

I'm not being personal, just honest. 

He pushed the player wide. No need to foul him at all. There were other players who should have been doing their job. They weren't and the goal was scored.

There were many occasions when the defenders gave the ball away or made big mistakes but got away with it because no goal was scored.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:57 pm

But a goal was scored because of his ineptitude....not about another 'made-up' scenario. They scored, because:

1. He gave the ball away

2. He chased a player for over 10 seconds and never once made a challenge

3. He allowed the player to turn, cut back inside and play an ASSIST to their goal scorer....they are all FACTS. 

NOT what-ifs.  Razz


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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:58 pm

As for honest....not personal.  Embarassed
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:00 pm

Tell you what...I'm sure I could turn your comments into something personal....then you can compare the two... Wink
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:04 pm

I prefer to be more even handed when I apportion blame. Yaya did nothing for us during the game, but you can't really blame him for doing what he was supposed to do - take the guy wide so he couldn't shoot. It's hardly his fault that no-one picked up the run, Laporte didn't try to stop the shot and Bravo didn't try to stop the shot.
..............................


One...HE didn't take the guy wide. The guy took TLMLF wide FFS. Razz Razz Razz Razz


It's hardly his fault that no-one picked up the run......HE SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO TAKE TLMLF INTO A CORNER, TURN HIM TWICE AND THEN CUT BACK INSIDE AND PLAY A SIMPLE PASS FOR THE PLAYER WHO TOOK A QUICK TOUCH AND SCORED! Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz


But hey...what the fuck do I know.  Rolling Eyes
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Topdawg on Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:03 pm

By the looks of it, not much at all. But it's all about opinions eh?

Now I understand what I have been doing wrong all these years. I should be taking one for the team. I shouldn't rely on my teammates being in their positions and doing their jobs. I should remember that, even though I might not be able to put a proper tackle in, I should just put one in because.

And I'll repeat, if he fouled someone, and they scored from the resulting free kick, you'd have layed into him for that.

My opinion is that you cannot just go around kicking players and 'taking one for the team'. That's not the way I like to play football.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:35 pm

1. Sorry you've been doing wrong for all these years....but there comes a time when we all have to learn from our elders.  Razz Razz Razz Razz

2. If someone takes one for the team, it's because they are situationally aware that they won't get a good tackle in and that it could lead to a shitty outcome. Not sure I've seen many 'take one for the team' tackles that haven't been because of this, as otherwise, it means they are the last man and get sent off. Just saying.  Wink

3. Laid not layed.  Very Happy

4. The way you like football to be played has nothing to do with the discussion....it's redundant. But the next time a player is through on goal and a player doesn't 'take one for the team' that Fernandinho and Otamendi have done on numerous occasions this season...be sure to let us know that "it's not the way you like football to be played". Razz

5. Finally, what if's are what if's....it means nothing.  Rolling Eyes
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by shakencity on Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:56 pm

So was Yaya responsible for the 2nd goal or not?
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by leopold on Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:37 pm

shakencity wrote:So was Yaya responsible for the 2nd goal or not?
I don't even know any more.  Or care.

At the end of the day, it was a dreadful performance where everyone on the pitch (aside from Sané, Foden and Diaz) decided to ignore the style of play that has won us so many games and a pot, and instead piss about in midfield like they were kings of the hill.  It doesn't matter who killed who, really.  The lesson here should be, don't ignore the boss, because he clearly knows what he's doing.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Strange Blue on Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:19 pm

I was bothered about the Liverpool game & the FA cup exit, but the CL dead rubbers meh! disappointed, but considering the number of changes not really that surprised. On wards & upwards, next target winning the PL when we take on the rags.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by Topdawg on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:54 pm

After some considerable thought, I believe you are talking utter bollocks bluey.

Yaya should take one for the team because he should be situationally aware that the defenders that were behind him wouldn't track the runner? Give me a break.

I can't believe that even you believe what you're saying half the time.

A couple of players make a mistake and you look back and say 'what if' Yaya had taken one for the team instead???

It's so very easy after the fact to say he should have done this or that. You've got a chip on your shoulder mate. 


If what ifs are plural, surely that should be 'they mean nothing'. No doubt you'll still say that you're right.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:42 pm

Ooooh...you have got personal tonight, haven't you snowflake? If it's so easy to say 'after the fact' why are you talking about what 'could have happened? Chip on shoulder...from you? Lmfao!!! When you're losing the argument you get personal...real big fella...or not, as we know.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by shakencity on Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:08 pm

Jeez fellas...simmer down a bit here. We all have differing opinions, but this is just getting plain daft now boys.

Let's draw a line under this and move on to other topics.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by skyblueoz on Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:44 pm

havn't seen the game as had too many pressing issues. Still would like to say if yaya took one for the team & received a yellow or red it would mean sweet fa to the team as the chances of him playing the next leg ae remote judging by all reports on his performance.
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by TMG on Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:04 am

I wouldn't be happy with being called snowflake  What a Face
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:44 am

Sorry..."snowflake".  Razz Razz Razz
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by blueboy on Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:45 am

Don't worry...we text each this morning. Just a bit of banter. We're still mates.  Very Happy
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Re: who's gotta go?

Post by TMG on Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:07 pm

Yaya & Bravo definitely. Tosin only coz he's got no chance anymore. I wouldn't be fussed at all if we got rid of Stones and Danilo as well. Danilo is no better than Kolorov. Stones I've never rated and he's been dire since his injury.
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Re: who's gotta go?

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