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Thoughts on last night and the last week.

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Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:16 am

So...the last 3 games has seen us out of the CL and lost a 2-0 lead in a derby at home.

We've had some awful officials and decisions over these 3 games...and yes, maybe there may have been some kind of difference during the game if these decisions would have been corrected - but that's not why we lost to United or LFC over 2 legs.

I'm a massive Pep fan - as you all know. However, I think he got some major parts of these 3 games wrong. Not everything, but there were key parts in each game, where as the Manager he could have and should have made better decisions.

The Refs: let's get this out of the way. They were poor, simple as that. How the FA hasn't given any retrospective action to Young for the tackle of Aguero, says something that's quite alarming IMO.

We can talk about the refs assistants in the first leg at Anfield - yes, they got decisions wrong twice, but the ref wasn't as poor as Atkinson was on Saturday.

For that ref to be appointed for last night's game - as per my FA comment, was again, very very suspicious. There was already issues between Pep and the ref after last season - and it seemed last night, that the ref had a point to prove and he was absolutely appalling. There was an injury to Otamendi where the game stopped for 2 minutes. There was our goal which was at least a minute and then other stoppages...and he blew 10 secs prior to the 45 mins. After 5 substitutions, 2 goals and plenty of stoppages and time wasting (which he kept pointing to his watch throughout the game) he played 2 mins of extra time. 

The disallowed goal was bewildering. A ref, a refs assistant and one of those statues who stands next to the goal, couldn't see the ball coming off Milner for our 2nd goal. That's beyond incompetent, it's tantamount to neglect of their duties. So all in all...we've had a massive streak of luck go against us in these 3 games - and in cup comps, you do need a little luck as well.

However, I'm really not sure, apart from the Atkinson error, whether it would have mattered over these 2 legs against LFC. We were simply not good enough.

If we take the 2 CL games. We scored 1 goal at Anfield (disallowed)....we scored last night and then had another goal disallowed. Apart from that, what did Karius have to do over 180 mins of football? Not much.

LFC defended superbly. We didn't. LFC scored 5 goals out of 7 shots...and that's telling.

Formations: I think we got the set-up wrong last Weds and last night, at HT and 1-0 up...we should have got Aguero on at HT and gone for it. Sane played all 3 games - at to be fair, was pretty shit in all 3 games. Bernardo looked lively on the ball and yet they kept passing to Sane. In the 2 games against LFC, I'm not sure I saw him take Arnold on once. I know on occasions they doubled up on him...but you have to try and get past both with his pace. Get a free kick, corner or even a penalty. He looks utterly fucked and has lost his confidence...and if he can't look across the line and see he's offside - wtf? How many times was he offside last night!

Gabriel Jesus....I'm really not sure he is ready to be leading our line. He spends more time on the floor than he does shooting. I know he scored, but his contribution over the 3 games hasn't been great. Another top striker is a must for me in the summer.

Otamendi has had a great season, so I feel shit saying it, but I really think he'll always revert to type when up against it. Another CB needed for me in the summer. Can't see Vinny being a first choice next season and Stones needs to step up. Looking over the two legs....VVD looks like a player we should have bought at all costs.

It would have been interesting if Mendy had been fit.

I'd also like someone to lead from MF. Maybe Kev could do that, but we looked like we struggled for leaders on that pitch last night. Silva isn't a leader.

Do they practice crossing? Fuck me...the crossing last night was absolutely dire. Every single cross hit the first LFC defender. 

Maybe now the pressure is off from the derby and the CL, we'll get back to some kind of solidity and how we've played this season - but the fact we haven't coped with the pressure over the past week, suggests some of our players don't have the mentality to cope - and that's a worry.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by Topdawg on Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:54 am

Might respond later, but Aguero at HT wouldn’t have been my call. We had done well in the first half scoring early, penalty shout, disallowed goal (nowt wrong with it) and hit the woodwork. So we weren’t that far off being 3-0 up so why change it at HT?

I’d have had Aguero on at 60 minutes if it was still 1-0.

After they scored, I mentioned to Den that I’d change one defender as we looked shot at the back and Liverpool would score again. And they did. If we didn’t need to win big last night, I think we’d have beaten them.

Roma showed what can be done though and that’s embarrassing for us. 

I expect us to lose against spurs and win the title with those two home games against lower levers clubs.

We’ve certainly lost our aura this last week.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:12 pm

Might respond later, but Aguero at HT wouldn’t have been my call. We had done well in the first half scoring early, penalty shout, disallowed goal (nowt wrong with it) and hit the woodwork. So we weren’t that far off being 3-0 up so why change it at HT?
......................


For simple fact we were 1-0 up at HT Ray. It doesn't matter what did happen or could have happened....the simple fact was that we didn't get the 2nd goal and we were left with 45 mins to get 2 or 3 more goals.


Apart from Jesus' goal, he didn't do a jot in the first half.


HT was the time to say "right, we go again and go out for that crucial 2nd goal"...the 2nd goal was the key to the game. They may have sat back deeper and deeper to protect their lead...instead, at 1-0, they knew all they had to do was score 1 and the tie was pretty much done and dusted. Bringing Aguero on after they scored was pretty much a waste of time IMO. The game was over then. Pointless.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by leopold on Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:18 pm

I'm not going to lie, I'm now extremely nervous about the run in.  Of the six remaining teams, we have Spurs, who'll be looking to capitalise on their game in hand over the dippers to take them into third place, which they will almost certainly try to do.  With us losing as many games in a week as we've lost in the rest of the season, I can see some heads will be down and we'll be ripe for the taking if they turn up.

And then our remaining five games are all against teams who are desperate to dodge relegation.  Brighton and West Ham are on the cusp of safety, so we might get something there, but if we lose to Spurs and the rags beat West Brom (the latter being almost certain) then we'll need a third win. And given the other three games are Southampton, Huddersfield and Swansea, all of whom are dangling on the precipice and have something to fight for, I'm now concerned we might not get it.

Of course, I could be nervous for no good reason, but I'd much rather we were playing teams like Newcastle or Everton, with nothing left to play for, than relegation dodgers who will come out of the blocks swinging.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by Topdawg on Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:27 pm

Jesus may not have done much but we were already winning and should have been further ahead. So we were creating chances and goals. As I said, I’d have given them all 15 minutes and then got Aguero on.

We’ll still challenge next season but all teams will be better equipped to cope with us.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:42 pm

As I said, I’d have given them all 15 minutes and then got Aguero on.
.........................

So basically, you're giving AGUERO 30 mins for us to get 2 or 3 goals without conceding. What's the difference with 45 mins then, apart from an extra 15 mins... Razz

Aguero should have been on from the start...never mind on the bench ffs!
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by Topdawg on Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:21 pm

As he was, he started on the bench. Dodgy refereeing aside, we should have been at least 2-0 up. We'd created enough so why do you suddenly not trust the players that created enough chances in 45 minutes to get right back into the game?
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blisteringblue on Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:22 pm

We can get 6 points from the last 6 games.  I think it will be a win at Wembley on Saturday personally and all over with the Swansea game.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:53 pm

Topdawg wrote:As he was, he started on the bench. Dodgy refereeing aside, we should have been at least 2-0 up. We'd created enough so why do you suddenly not trust the players that created enough chances in 45 minutes to get right back into the game?
TBf...we scored, had a goal disallowed and hit the post. Apart from that we don't have any other great chance, so it's not exactly like we had chance after chance.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by TMG on Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:28 pm

The damage was done in the 1st leg so not too worried about last night as it always a big ask.

It is a massive worry though that we have shipped 8 goals in the last 3 games and now lost 3 on the bounce considering we have spent big on defenders. I think Pep might have to rethink his line up and tactics certainly against the Dippers in the future and probably against most of the tougher teams.

We really have been on the receiving end of some disgraceful reffing decisions this season. At least 4 leg breaking challenges that have been unpunished and numerous disallowed goals or goals that shouldn't have been given against us. I'm not a big one for conspiracy theories but there definitely still seems to be favouritism towards the Dippers & Rags when they play us & we all know the media has an agenda.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by skyblueoz on Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:37 pm

Just listening to peps after match media conference. He mentioned changing the formation second half because the players were spent. I think had that second goal been given the players may have had a bit more spring in their step. I just wonder if the high press game which we play has finally caught up with the players as they have certainly started to make errors which were not evident earlier in the season. They look physically drained. I think we will probably sign 3 to 4 players of top quality in the summer. This to maintain the balance between us and the chasing pack as they will most certainly reinforce. I do trust pep and sometimes when decisions which baffle us are made we question why? however we are not privy to the reasons why they are made and under what circumstance all I know is that he is the best in the business and I certainly do not have the nous to question him in football matters.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by skyblueoz on Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:44 pm

Prior to emigrating here to oz when in England my wife worked for a company in South Shields. One her bosses was Keith Hackett then chairman of the professional referees association. He was always well liked and respected by players & managers alike. I was interested to read his comments and indeed those of Graham Poll on city watch. The sooner Var is introduced the better. I just hope they get its teething problems sorted out at the world cup then we can look forward to discussing the football not the officials.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by Topdawg on Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:19 pm

We’ll definitely get a CF, AM, DM and CB in the summer
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:46 pm

Interesting comment about players being knackered at HT... me and Ray were chatting before the game and both of us thought LFC would attack us from the off and then tire like they normally do after 60-65 mins. 

Last night, I honestly think Klopp did the opposite and told the players to defend like mad for 45 and then save your energy for the 2nd half. As we were the ones who looked knackered in the 2nd half and bereft of ideas and they managed to defend like mad and score 2 goals. 

Hence, why we should have gone all out after HT and have Aguero on the pitch. 

Klopp out-thought Pep I'm afraid - in both legs. We have to accept that. Pep got it wrong in both legs, sadly, especially the first leg.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:56 pm

Gonna sit down and watch the game again. Great to have tickets from Rich, but we were on row 1 next to the goal and apart from hardly seeing much in the first half because we had bloody official photographers right in front of us....2nd half, when it all kicked off a few rows behind us with a few LFC fans getting a kicking for celebrating and goading City fans, we then had the bloody stewards stood up in front of us for the last 15 mins.

I went mental, stood up and gave them dogs abuse. I got the senior security guy over and gave him an earful and told him we'll all stand up then...as the first 3 or 4 rows can't see the game"...he was pretty apologetic and tried to tell his line of stewards to get down as much as possible....but all because of some dipper cnuts in our end.

I stood up, tried to implore others to stand up....but to no avail. They just sat there and watched an orange bib for the final 10-15 mins. Shameful. 

I'd have stood all the second half, but there were kids sat behind us on row 2, and I was doing my best to move so they could see.

Even the official MCFC photographer who was right in front if us, was doing his best not to get into the way. He gave us some programmes to apologise.

Hope the long-haired dipper fucker wakes up with a banging headache....he got planted with some cracking punches. Twat.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by shakencity on Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:27 pm

If as Pep says "we were spent at HT", then Aguero should have been put on....surely he's fit enough to play 45mins. Maybe Klopp thought City would slow in the 2nd half, hence they defended like Trojans in the 1st.

Imo last night was a carbon copy of the derby, we completely dominated the 1st half then looked a complete shadow of that team in the 2nd....letting the opposition back into the game. 

That said, I think we have to apply a bit of perspective here fellas. Ok we've had a bad week results wise but imo we only got  outplayed in the 1st 45 minutes at Anfield...the 2nd half was far more even. Apart from a 25 minute spell in the 2nd half against the Rags, we totally dominated...and last night was the most 1 sided half of football I've seen all season from a team, with the 2nd half arguably 50/50.
Also take into account, these were against the 2nd and 3rd best teams in England.

We have no given right to win any game and big decisions in these big games haven't gone our way...unfortunately it happens. This season's been absolutely fantastic to watch, one which we have probably never witnessed before....as disappointed as this week's been, I for one won't let it disheartened me too much.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by leopold on Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:44 pm

I think what didn't help us (aside from needing three goals) was the fact that we had a high tempo derby at the weekend with a lot at stake and they had a fairly low key affair in which they basically rested against a god awful Everton side.  They were already fresher than we were and Klippity knew we'd have to go at them from the first whistle.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:48 pm

I agree Den..we have been spoiled this season. However, I think it's only right to ask why we were 2-0 up against the rags and lost 3-2, and why we dominated 1-0 until HT and no changes were made for 20+ mins of the 2nd half last night, until we were 2-1 down.

Been a great season....but could easily have been all over in the PL and possibly, just possibly, have clawed something back last night if we'd have gone for it from the start of the 2nd half.

LFC deserved it over 2 legs - solely because they defended well and we didn't.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by shakencity on Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:58 pm

blueboy wrote:I agree Den..we have been spoiled this season. However, I think it's only right to ask why we were 2-0 up against the rags and lost 3-2, and why we dominated 1-0 until HT and no changes were made for 20+ mins of the 2nd half last night, until we were 2-1 down.
That's a fair point mate and one I'm sure hasn't gone unnoticed by Pep...well I hope not anyway. He's the only one who can address this at the end of the season, here's hoping he's making those plans right now.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:06 pm

Apparently, plans have been in place since January - for this summer's transfer targets.

Guess after the past week, it may have changed ever so slightly.

Huge CB needed, as well as a proper strong target man who can hold the ball up (Dzeko anyone?  Razz) and another left attacking winger and another very solid DMF with energy. But whoever we get, we need a proper fucking leader on the pitch. Vinny won't be around for most of next season - i'm guessing, Silva isn't a leader and the only player who seems to want to lead from the front from those 2, who will be around next season, is KDB. I'd happily give the armband to him.

We've had no proper leadership this season with Vinny out for long periods, and we certainly didn't have any on the pitch at Anfield, 2nd half of the United game and last night.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by Topdawg on Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:06 pm

I said to Den that we should have played Foden instead of Gundogan. The game was already gone and Foden needs minutes. And he’s got more legs than ilkay
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blisteringblue on Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:09 pm

Anybody watching the Real Juve game,  wtf is going on this round?  Fooking dippers could win it  Embarassed
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:32 pm

they'd struggle against Juve IMO.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blisteringblue on Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:54 pm

Lucky lucky Real, Michael Oliver too
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by Moonchester on Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:09 pm

I've seen Blueys comments on it from twitter...

but for me, watching it in real time, I thought Pen...  saw the replay, I thought Pen...
the defender couldn't win the ball from behind, and gave the attacker an excuse to go down by bundling through him. granted, it's not a studs up blatant hack down, but still a foul and therefore penalty

Red for Buffon was spot on too, shoving the ref.

Atkinson was 20 yards away, maybe he might see how to not bottle giving a penalty for a foul in the box next time..
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:34 am

Disagree. Last 30 seconds of the game, you have to be absolutely certain that was a pen...and he couldn't have been. The player was already falling down as the defenders boot came around and cleared it. Poor, poor decision. 
What do you expect everyone to do with a decision like that being the last kick of the game? Surprised nobody chinned him.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by Moonchester on Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:58 am

His boot only got to the ball because he had his hand on the players back, who was waiting to head the ball into an empty net...

Soft, maybe, but still a penalty.  Oliver was on the edge of the box with a good view of the defender bumbling into the back of an attacker waiting to score the winning goal.

I don't care who they are, if players raise their hands to the officials they get sent off.  UEFA should add extra games onto it for that. No mitigating circumstances for striking an official.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:45 am

Hardly struck him ffs.

Anyway, guess we'll agree to disagree. Just heard Stuart Pearce talking about it - and he said it was 50-50 either way. 

Surely you have to be 100% to give a penalty at 3-3 with 30 seconds to go - that's just my opinion.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by Moonchester on Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:51 am

the BBC ticker has a few differing opinions on it. 

yes you can say soft pen, 50/50 etc.. the ref had a call to make and he made it.
if he doesn't give that, is he not then called a bottler also?
Benatia should not have made the bumbling tackle. if he thinks the player is going down anyway, run round him and clear it. diving in left a decision to be made.

VAR would not have made that any clearer as it was matter of opinion and we're still split on it now.

time and place and situation don't matter. the tackle/foul at any time is the call to be made, irrespective of how well Juve had played up to that point.

Buffon didn't 'whack' him, but rules are rules, you raise your arms it's a red, (even to opposing player) certainly shoving the referee has no excuse.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by leopold on Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:57 am

blueboy wrote:But whoever we get, we need a proper fucking leader on the pitch. Vinny won't be around for most of next season - i'm guessing, Silva isn't a leader and the only player who seems to want to lead from the front from those 2, who will be around next season, is KDB. I'd happily give the armband to him.
I'd agree with you that Kev would be the best shout for the armband, especially after seeing him grab games by the scruff of the neck and turn them around. But that said, I wouldn't have a captain playing that high up the pitch.  You need your attacking players focussed on creating attacks, not concerning themselves with defence when they should be preparing to collect a clearance.

For me, a captain has to be in the centre of defence.  They can organise from the back and have the best view of the field without having to turn around and face their own keeper.  The trouble is, aside from Vinny, we don't have anyone with that kind of presence about them.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:59 am

Bloody hell...players are not robots.

What you're basically saying, is that Pep as well should be banned for 3 games next season as he broke the rules on Tuesday night on 3 different occasions...and rules are rules. Wink
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:02 am

leopold wrote:
blueboy wrote:But whoever we get, we need a proper fucking leader on the pitch. Vinny won't be around for most of next season - i'm guessing, Silva isn't a leader and the only player who seems to want to lead from the front from those 2, who will be around next season, is KDB. I'd happily give the armband to him.
I'd agree with you that Kev would be the best shout for the armband, especially after seeing him grab games by the scruff of the neck and turn them around. But that said, I wouldn't have a captain playing that high up the pitch.  You need your attacking players focussed on creating attacks, not concerning themselves with defence when they should be preparing to collect a clearance.

For me, a captain has to be in the centre of defence.  They can organise from the back and have the best view of the field without having to turn around and face their own keeper.  The trouble is, aside from Vinny, we don't have anyone with that kind of presence about them.
I agree. Personally, it'd be a CB for me as well...but who? Can't see Laporte, Otamendi or Stones being given the armband....and Vinny may be sporadically used next season, so it falls back on who? 

Think of the great leaders on the pitch in the past - Keane, Viera - CMF's.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blisteringblue on Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:19 am

Spanish football does my head in though, and Juve were not much better.   They have some of the best players in the world but some of the diving and rolling around is just plain embarrassing.   It's just ingrained in them.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:34 am

Oh god, yeah agree Scott.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by shakencity on Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:16 am

Who the frig actually cares about Real Madrid n Juve....Well I for one couldn't give 2 shits about who won n lost.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by Topdawg on Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:20 am

I always thought that would be given as a penalty. I was watching the highlights and didn't even know the result or what minute we were in.

You could see Oliver would give it just by his demeanour.

If the defender didn't touch the b all, it has to be a penalty for me. But the ref couldn't see properly (I haven't watched it several times to check) so would rely on the fella behind the goal or the linesman.

Is a hand on the shoulder enough to win a penalty? Sterling went down against Liverpool for exactly that. It looked too theatrical.

I still prefer what Aguero did, against Norwich I think, where he just stopped and threw his arms up and got the penalty which looked just as soft. But he forced the ref to make a decision without falling down which, I think, makes it more likely to get it in your favour.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

Post by blueboy on Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:23 am

Agree.
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Re: Thoughts on last night and the last week.

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