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General Election

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Post by Paulpowersleftfoot Fri May 01, 2015 7:03 pm

Lets hope the electorate do the decent thing and keep Beaker and the krankie dwarf out of no 10.
Vote dave,it's for the best
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Post by blueboy Fri May 01, 2015 7:20 pm

What a fucking embarrassment listening to that simpleton, Ed Milliband last night.

When asked if Labour had overspent when they were last in power - he actually stood there and said "no".

Even when the audience were laughing at his response and the person who asked the question came back and said "are you kidding?"....he still tried to defend the shit the Labour government got this country into - and he expects people to trust him? 

I'd rather trust Stephen Hawking driving my car with my kids in it, than a Labour government looking after our country.

As for wee Jimmy Krankie.....she can fuck right off. 

With her anywhere near in power - we'd have no defence, be speaking Russian in 10 years time and all be queuing for our loaves of bread each morning.
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Post by Wensdi Sat May 02, 2015 1:37 am

Laughed out loud at work Blueboy - when I read the Jimmy Krankie bit.  Hilarious.
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Post by Wensdi Sat May 02, 2015 1:48 am

After the systematic character destruction of Obama (by the majority of Southerners) over here - I am now watching them doing the same to Hillary Clinton.  Was it any more egregious what Dick Cheney did with the Halliburton debacle any than Hillary and Bill's non disclosure of contributors to their Foundation.  I asked that question tonight and am now in the dog house.
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Post by skyblueoz Sat May 02, 2015 3:43 am

wensdi have you had non stop radio adds getting you as an ex pat to vote in the british elections as that is all we have heard here for the first time ever. Someone must be getting nervous
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Post by blueboy Sat May 02, 2015 8:43 am

Really Oz? Didn't realise you could do that. Is it because you still hold a British passport?
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Post by Wensdi Sat May 02, 2015 2:41 pm

No Oz - I haven't but if I had - then I would.  Gutted that Derby didn't make the playoffs after their disappointment last season.
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Post by skyblueoz Sat May 02, 2015 2:53 pm

yes it is  because we still hold British passports I have dual nationality, My wife although Australian by birth was 2 when she went to England where she lived all her life till we emigrated out here can also vote through Dual nationality.
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Post by Paulpowersleftfoot Fri May 08, 2015 6:16 am

Looking like a great night for the Tories 
Beaker dead man walking
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Post by shakencity Fri May 08, 2015 7:16 am

Mores the pity Razz
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Post by Topdawg Fri May 08, 2015 8:17 am

Best of a bad bunch. SNP wiping out everyone else in Scotland could be bad news. Maybe we should cut them adrift now...
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Post by blueboy Fri May 08, 2015 8:26 am

Good result....and to show how much the voters didn't believe in Labour running the economy...Ed Balls has just lost his seat.
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Post by Wensdi Fri May 08, 2015 12:28 pm

Great news indeed - although Wee Jimmy Krankie did well eh?
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Post by blueboy Fri May 08, 2015 12:37 pm

It was always going to happen once the SNP got their act together..under Jimmy Krankie.

I think if they do get another referendum (which I'm not sure they will as I think the Tories will just say "we'll give you the concessions we promised after the last one), there is a good chance they would vote YES.

Still...much better than a Labour/SNP coalition.
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Post by TMG Fri May 08, 2015 3:41 pm

They're all a bunch of cnuts !
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Post by Guest Fri May 08, 2015 4:24 pm

It was obvious when the Bravehearts cast out Labour in Scotland the tories would win.

I personally think the "There is no money left" letter that Big Dave has carried around for the past month has done the most damage.   No way did they deserve another chance with the economy and its so funny their little joke had such a devastating outcome.

Personally I voted Tory for the 1st time in my life because at the end of the day they aren't doing a bad job and I'm better off under them.  Simples.

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Post by Wensdi Fri May 08, 2015 5:41 pm

Didn't the Independents get a larger % than the SNP?
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Post by blueboy Fri May 08, 2015 5:55 pm

56 seats to SNP, 23 to the 'others'....however, percentage vote was 7.5% 'others' to 4.7% SNP.

Conservatives ended up on 330 seats with a majority of 4+ seats...not ideal, but still better than Miliband and his Moses tablet party.

I agree with you BB....the key important thing was to keep reducing the deficit and ensuring our economy remains strong - Labour decided to go the opposite way with their argument. Lots of promises - but little substance of how they were going to do it.

As with you, I'm personally better off under a Tory government right now - and the future for my kids looks brighter than if Labour would run this country into the ground again.

For me - the last QT debate sealed Miliband's fate. When asked if he admitted that the previous Labour government had borrowed too much and overspent - he stood there and 3 times, said "no, I don't". And for me, right there, that was the nail in Labours coffin, as I believe it was much closer up until last week - but then the public decided once again, they just cannot trust Labour to look after our economy.
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Post by Topdawg Fri May 08, 2015 6:55 pm

This current FPTP system is fucked up. UKIP had 13% of the votes yet win 1 seat. SNP get 1.5M votes and get 56 seats. The green party get 1M votes for just one seat.

Too many votes for Scotland for a start.
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Post by TMG Fri May 08, 2015 7:17 pm

Well being in the public services I am not fucking better off In fact my salary had in real terms gone down over each of the last 5 yrs whilst pretty much everything else has gone up My service has been completely destroyed by cuts, several hundred people some of my friends have lost their jobs whilst those still here are very very worried for their future and their families and I fully expect further cuts now the idiots in this country have given these fuckers the mandate to further shaft us whilst giving themselves hefty pay rises and 'letting off' the many thieving and corrupt MPs who still claim for unnecessary 'expenses' & enabling bankers & other rich twats to continue to Fuk the country over 
Meanwhile people who are poor sick or elderly will also suffer further under the Tories but heh fuck them Eh? 

Ps Not saying Labour would be any better.  As I sed b4 They are all a bunch of cnuts
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Post by blueboy Fri May 08, 2015 7:56 pm

Guess we can't all be happy....nor can we be certain we'd be better off/worse off under a different party.

Jobs losses, though sad, will always happen, as will cuts....so I guess there would always be someone worse off. If it was me, guess I'd moan about it as well.

However, the 'banking' industry argument is guff. It was Labour who allowed the banking industry to self-regulate - and gave them the power to run the banks into the ground and pretty much do what they want...which unfortunately, cannot just be taken away in an instance.

Bankers get it in the neck all of the time from the Labour party...shame they couldn't be arsed to do anything about it during the 'war criminals' reign....and then refuse to admit they had anything to do with it.

Anyway...for me, I've had my fill of political debates and maybe this isn't the forum as in my experience, it generally leads to fallouts.
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Post by TMG Fri May 08, 2015 7:59 pm

Yeah I'm all right Jack
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Post by blueboy Fri May 08, 2015 8:23 pm

TMG wrote:Yeah I'm all right Jack

Fuckin hell TMG....I'm not rich or well off. My mum lives in a council house in Burnage. I was born and raised in Wythenshawe.

I've worked all my life. I run my own small business - and under Labour's promises of a reduction in business rates, I'd probably be better off. My problem is what state we'd be in for my kids in 5-10 years time, so I'm hardly thinking "I'm all right Jack"...I'm actually thinking of my kids future which is tied in to us not becoming another Spain, Italy or Greece - for when they go to Uni/College/ or are trying to get a job, buy/rent a house in a country which is basically fucked, on it's knees through a policy of 'borrow, borrow, borrow' and owes a massive debt to the EU/Germany etc...and the banking crisis that was solely down to Labours 'blind-eye' policies, will seem like a ripple on a pond compared to where we'd be.

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Post by leopold Fri May 08, 2015 8:39 pm

And worst of all, we're stuck with that vile harridan Katie Hopkins! Urgh...
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Post by Wensdi Fri May 08, 2015 8:39 pm

TD - that's why I asked the question.  Seems a bit unfair really.  Still - glad Labour didn't get in - and Miliband is a right tater.
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Post by blueboy Fri May 08, 2015 8:41 pm

leopold wrote:And worst of all, we're stuck with that vile harridan Katie Hopkins! Urgh...

The problem is, the press just keep giving her coverage - like anyone gives a flying fuck what she has to say.
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Post by TMG Fri May 08, 2015 8:48 pm

C:evil:
My daughter is now burdened with a nice 40000 debt thanks to this government but I guess she didn't have to go to uni she could have got a job Rolling Eyes
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Post by blueboy Fri May 08, 2015 8:58 pm

Hold on....tuition fees were first introduced by Labour in 1998!

Then in 2004 under Labour, they increased them 3 fold.

Only, when the Conservatives came into power 5 years ago, did Labour even bother to voice some new policy of a reduction from the now top rate £9000.....which not all Uni's charged, a large majority charged £6000.....that was in 2012....a full 14 years after Labour introduced it!!

So in 6 years, Labour had trebled their introductory tuition fee....yet in 14 years, it has only been raised by another £3000.

However, as per usual, Labour complain about the VERY things they introduced or allowed to happen.

Talk about hypocrisy!!
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Post by blueboy Fri May 08, 2015 9:04 pm

Labour members reaction to it:

The decision signalled the end of the principle of free higher education and was met with concern by some in the Labour Party. Former Labour education secretary Ted Short said that he was ashamed to be a member of the party and Ken Livingstone accused ministers of "whipping away a ladder of opportunity which they themselves had climbed".
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Post by Topdawg Fri May 08, 2015 9:09 pm

I was a labour man all my life until I voted Lib Dem a couple of elections back. Now I'm a little older, and wiser, I don't vote at all. I think the current conservatives are the best of a bad bunch.

Under labour, there was a massive privatisation of the NHS. Remember PFI?
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Post by blueboy Fri May 08, 2015 9:27 pm

Topdawg wrote:I was a labour man all my life until I voted Lib Dem a couple of elections back. Now I'm a little older, and wiser, I don't vote at all. I think the current conservatives are the best of a bad bunch.

Under labour, there was a massive privatisation of the NHS. Remember PFI?

Another myth that Labour use as an argument - #notourfault. Rolling Eyes
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Post by TMG Fri May 08, 2015 10:43 pm

The tuition fees have gone up from 3000 under labour to 9000 under the Tory coalition although my daughter is well lucky coz she only had to pay 8000 per year plus 4000 for accommodation Hope Ur saving up Blue
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Post by Guest Sat May 09, 2015 9:56 am

TMG, my girls are the same, and they have already done 3 years they are now doing teacher training and it's not exactly a 1798% Wonga Loan is it.   Interest Free and only pay back when earning over a certain amount.

We will all disagree about politics and yes I'm sorry but there has to be some "I'm alright Jack" in there, why wouldn't there be.

I voted labour 5 years ago because I was scared of what the Tories would do, but after living with them for 5 years IMHO they had done OK, we were not going to turn into Greece with a fiscal meltdown and to be honest I was a little better off.

At the end of the day the wrong person was leading Labour, everybody knows it should have been his brother.   The Ed factor can't be taken away from the loss either.

Anyway it's done now, I'm probably going to move this into OFF-TOPIC just so we don't all fall out.

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Post by titbumwilly Sat May 09, 2015 10:04 am

As a firefighter, in my opinion it's an absolutely fucking disastrous result.
My wages have gone down 20% in real terms over the past 5 years, with pay freezes and an increase in pension contributions. And don't believe the press bollocks about it being a bloated free pension, I now pay £450 a month for my 'free' pension. I've now got to pay it for an extra 3 years to get exactly the same amount I signed a contract for 20 odd years ago. When Sun and Daily Mail readers say 'well, it's the cost of getting us out of the mire' I ask them how they would feel if they got to the final year of their mortgage and the building society told them that 'sorry, but we've decided you've got to pay your mortgage for another 3 years because we messed up our accounts'? It's the same principle.
And if you don't give a fuck about someone else's pension (and in this Tory society that seems to be the case) then consider the fact that in my Brigade alone the budget has been cut 20% already, and we've been told that over the next 3 years of Tory government it will be cut by another 20%. And that will affect the public, as you will now start to see appliances arriving with untrained crews, firefighters of 60 tears of age, or crews of only 3, that's not scaremongering, it's already happening!
40% cuts can't be swallowed by cutting the fat! It's front line services that will be affected, and consequently lives will be lost. But hey oh, as long as it helps to get the banks back making obscene profits it will be worth it!
The amount of money these 'austerity measures' have saved since 2009 is as near as damn it to the total amount paid out by banks over the same period in bonuses, something Thatcher would have been proud of.
My daughter graduated 2 years ago with £9000 of debt, my son is at Uni now but paying that amount a year for the privilege of furthering his education.
Yes Labour fucked up the economy, but with a massive amount of help from the corrupt Tory-voting bankers.
And if you think that a majority Tory government is a good thing, keep reading the Daily Mail and don't dare to read behind the headlines at what's really happening in this country. We are in the hands of Cameron, Osborne and that odious scumbag Johnson, heaven help us for the next 5 years.
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Post by TMG Sat May 09, 2015 10:47 am

Here here TBW 
I'm more or less in the same boat 
This country will suffer badly in the future because of the massive cuts to the public sector As U say lives are and will be lost with the Fire Brigade Police & NHS being destroyed and no doubt privatised more & more to line big companies pockets. But as long as the MPs get their 11% pay rises and collect their fraudulent claims for their 2nd & 3rd houses & the rich bastards get richer at the expense of everyone else then who gives a fuck
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Post by skyblueoz Sat May 09, 2015 11:01 am

Jeez if it is as bad as you say i'm glad i'm in oz. However I would say corruption & politics go hand in hand & it doesn't matter what side of politics you are on it will effect you in someways.
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Post by skyblueoz Sat May 09, 2015 11:03 am

By the way blue I saw that snp woman for the first time on the world news here your analogy of her & wee jimmy Krankie is uncanny.
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Post by Topdawg Sat May 09, 2015 11:22 am

I'll say it again, labour fucked around with the NHS when they were in power. Contracts awarded on the quiet and there NHS bigwig they got from America fucked off for a private industry job (pay £2M I think) a couple of years later. 

I remember one NHS trust manager mentioning a PFI type contract for a new surgery and, not being in that game, said I'd look for a margin of about 10% if I was to bid. He laughed at me and said I wouldn't be taken seriously unless my margin was 45%- 50%.

Labour allowed some pretty terrible use of public money in the NHS with millions going to private contractors who, sometimes, had to do fuck all for it.

We all sit on different sides of the fence and I'm sure we can find stories about each party working for themselves rather than the general population.

Accept the fact that most politicians are in it for themselves, not the good of others.
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Post by blueboy Sat May 09, 2015 11:29 am

Didn't New Labour in 1999 start the whole privatisation of the NHS....

They introduced market structures and foundation trusts as part of their 'public sector reforms'....so back in 1999, public sector reform started - and not by the Tories.
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Post by TMG Sat May 09, 2015 11:42 am

R Just coz labour started all these shit things doesn't mean the Torys should continue them. Im talking about the here and now 

You lot sound like scousers talking about the past  Razz:P
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Post by blueboy Sat May 09, 2015 12:02 pm

Oh right....so answer me this:

When the Conservatives were handed a government and a letter - that in the words of Liam Byrne ""Dear Chief Secretary, I'm afraid there is no money. With kind regards - and good luck! Liam.".....from where do they start to turn around the mess? Suddenly say "ok, let's stop privatisation of the NHS that Labour started...this will really help us"

Or, how can they reverse what New Labour did in mid 2000's by handing out £1b private sector contracts to run Cambridgeshire NHS....which are still losing £30-40m per year and those loans will take years to pay off.

That 'magic money tree' that Labour have?

Anyway - I said I'd had my fill of political debates. I'm sorry if you work for the public sector, I'm sorry if you haven't got what you want - I genuinely am. However, history shows us where a lot of these cuts started, whether they still exist today or not, whoever is in government needs to reduce the deficit left by the last Labour government's policy of borrow, borrow, borrow.

And I agree - they all want to line their own pockets and line-up future Board of Director roles when they retire.
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Post by titbumwilly Sat May 09, 2015 1:54 pm

Depends how far you all want to go back? Personally it was the darling of the right, Thatcher, that first celebrated and promoted avarice within society. Selling utilities to those that already own them was a masterstroke! And yet she's still revered by some of those that now pay a fortune to foreign companies for basic necessities (gas, electricity and water). You couldn't make it up!
I detest Blair, Brown and 'New Labour' as much as I do this current government.
I personally hope that all those that voted for the Eton elite to lord it over them say thank you as they get bent over and shafted over the next 5 years.
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Post by titbumwilly Sat May 09, 2015 2:17 pm

And Blue, with regard to my pension, it's not a case of not getting what I want, it's a case of not getting what is rightfully mine!
I've been in this job under Tory, Labour and Tory governments and each and every one of them has been a bunch of shisters, they've all made the working class pay for the greed of the bankers and the rich. It's morally bankrupt. But it's always going to be the same whoever gets voted in, I just think it's going to be far nastier and more cynical from the Bullingdon scum.
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Post by Topdawg Sat May 09, 2015 2:28 pm

I think whatever party is in power screws some people over to keep the overall economy moving forwards. I remember the 70s and the blackouts and unions wielding ridiculous power. 

As far back as I can go, politicians have been screwing people over. This won't ever change.
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Post by blueboy Sat May 09, 2015 2:45 pm

Agree Dawg.

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Post by blueboy Sat May 09, 2015 3:03 pm

titbumwilly wrote:And Blue, with regard to my pension, it's not a case of not getting what I want, it's a case of not getting what is rightfully mine!
I've been in this job under Tory, Labour and Tory governments and each and every one of them has been a bunch of shisters, they've all made the working class pay for the greed of the bankers and the rich. It's morally bankrupt. But it's always going to be the same whoever gets voted in, I just think it's going to be far nastier and more cynical from the Bullingdon scum.

I empathise TBW...I really do, however, when you say the working class pay for the greed of bankers, are you pointing to the fact that under a Labour government, they created this problem?

Under New Labour, they allowed the financial city to self-regulate....which partly led to the absolute catastrophe this country is in. Why do Labour voters use the banking fraternity collapse and greed as something created by the Tories?

There were no more people or organisations worthy of the word 'greed' than New Labour which nearly ruined this country.



Read below article from last weeks The Spectator - see link for some graphics.:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/04/the-truth-about-labour-and-overspending/

Ed Miliband’s worst moment in the Question Time debate came when he refused to accept that Labour had spent too much before the crash. The audience reacted with fury: how could he be trusted if he has yet to work out what he did wrong? This is toxic for him because his denial is completely genuine: he has convinced himself that the debt crisis is unconnected to what he got up to when serving in HM Treasury.


After three years of prudence, Gordon Brown switched tactics in 2000 and committed himself to a massive, audacious project: the Europeanisation of the British economy. He set out to shift our political centre of gravity, from being the ‘third way’ between the EU and the US and becoming an EU-style country with a massive government and masses of people dependant on that government. This was the Brown project. So the years 2000-10 saw the size of the state soar from 37pc to 50pc – a rise of 13 points. This is a faster rise than any other country, over any other postwar decade. And half of the damage was done by 2007, before the crash.


The above graph, using OECD data, tells the tragic tale. At the start of that decade, Britain’s spending was closer to that of the USA, but Brown then started his massive increase. He started to force-feed the state like a foie gras goose, but couldn’t squeeze enough tax from the country. So his splurge was financed by debt (below). Brown stood out from every other global finance minister in borrowing like crazy, during the boom. So UK finances were in a precarious state when the crash struck.


By the time Lehman Bros collapsed, Brown had already increased Britain’s national debt by 43 per cent to fund his expansion of the state. He was already running up massive deficits: there was no deficit in 2000/01 but Brown (and his lieutenants Balls and Miliband) were running up a bizarre boom-time deficit of 3pc of GDP by 2005/6, the maximum allowed under EU rules. Brown’s ruinous profligacy defied every rule in the book of financial management. Even Keynesians argue that you need to run a surplus (i.e., reduce debt) in the good times. Brown had a different motto: more debt in the boom, more debt in the bust. And if it goes wrong: well, that’s my successors’  problem.


Several countries that fared best during the crisis - Sweden, Australia, Canada etc – have laws forcing the government not to jack up any more debt in the boom years.


Look at the debt (below) – not a penny of this is connected to bank bailouts. And even now, Miliband can’t bring himself to recognise what he did. As the lady from the Question Time audience so beautifully put it, if he can’t, why should voters let him do it again?

General Election Screen-Shot-2015-05-01-at-00.09.03-576x413
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Post by titbumwilly Sat May 09, 2015 5:27 pm

I don't know why I am being labelled as a Labour voter! I've not told anyone which way I vote, never have done.
And yes, I see the working class paying for the greedy bankers. Deregulating the banks wasn't a green light to people to abuse the system. That's the equivalent of saying that car manufacturers are responsible for every speeding offence! Sorry judge, but they made a car that exceeds the speed limit, so of course I was going to speed, it's their fault!
When my pay gets frozen for 5 years, when my pension gets devalued without consultation, (while the banks are still giving out bonuses) in the spurious name of 'austerity measures', then yes, I see that as unfair.
The banking collapse is down to individuals in that sector, but it's the public sector workers who are being fleeced to bale them out.
All in this together! My fucking arse!
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Post by blueboy Sat May 09, 2015 6:10 pm

The banking collapse is down to individuals in that sector, but it's the public sector workers who are being fleeced to bale them out.
.................................


Never once accused you of being a Labour voter TBW. I was just pointing out that the Labour government allowed the banking industry to self-regulate, which led to the most appalling use of 'everyday peoples' money....and who bailed them out? Us.


So when people argue their point about the Tory government allowing bankers their bonuses (which is continuously used by them)...they really should take a look at what New Labour allowed them to get away with. Some may say.....'collusion'. How can a party 'borrow, borrow and borrow more'.....all the while knowing what the banking industry was doing?


I hate many policies under the Tories - but in reality, what they were left with after 10 years of New Labour was nothing short of criminal. Yet they get blamed for not being able to turn it around in 5 years. Talk about perspective.


Like I said, I'd vote for any party that could persuade me they had the answer to reduce our deficit and get this country back on track - and only then, can we address the issues of private sector pay cuts, NHS, schools, etc etc etc....otherwise, we can sort one sector out in the short term, at the neglect of the country as a whole. Labour would just have borrowed more - made the Labour voters happy for 3/4 years...then we'd end up in the shittiest position we could think of - and all for a few years of reward.....Britain becomes Greece all over again.


Total falsehood by a party that promises the World - and delivers an Atlas.
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Post by leopold Sun May 10, 2015 2:31 pm

The banks have too much power, which was given to them by Tory Blair. But it was Thatcher who turned us into a nation of bankers by selling off the family silver and forcing us to rely on a shaky financial model to sustain our wealth.

If we actually made things to sell, we'd probably be in a better place, with more jobs and more money coming in.
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Post by Topdawg Sun May 10, 2015 3:33 pm

We tried that in the 70s Leo and we made overpriced shit and the unions wielded ridiculous power. Didn't you have to be in a union to play an instrument live on the bbc in the 70s?
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