A320 crashes in the French Alps

First topic message reminder :

From Barcelona to Dusseldforf....

Passenger screams heard just before impact...

Yeah, not sure it was necessary to release that information.

See that the pilots parents have travelled with the passengers families and are at the scene together.

Guess they made sure they moved them away and told them about their son being responsible for the deaths of 149 innocent people before they released that info.

BBC stated Germanwings did not operate the 2 crew minimum procedure on their services?
instead they have a minimal time policy or something how quick the captain has to be, 3 shakes only sort of rule..

Actually, just listening to a press conference, Lufthansa CEO says there aren't any procedures for somebody being in the cockpit when a pilot takes a toilet break. He claims he doesn't know of any airline that does this in Europe....I suggest he checks his facts.

Sorry Moon, overlapped there. It shouldn't really matter about time frame....if an explosive decompression was to occur, the pilot in the toilet would have to go onto the O2 mask in the toilet anyway. If the other pilot couldn't get his mask on, at least there's a chance the cabin crew member could open the door manually or assist with the co-pilots mask.

I know the rules better than the twonk running Lufthansa. That's because I have a more reliable source...

  I don't profess to know EVERY airline's procedure in the UK or Europe....but as I mentioned earlier - it's certainly mandatory in the UK that if the CDSS doesn't work, it necessary for a cabin crew member to be in there. 

It's just best practice anyway, not for this scenario, but if something was to happen to the other pilot - ie medical emergency, fit, sickness.

Will have to check with my colleagues on whether they have SOPs for this.

Some SOB had alreadly leaked the info from the CVR to the NY Times. Bastard. I guess that's why they've released the info officially without thinking about the consequences. Imagine distraught families hearing that whilst with the parents of the co pilot?

I see that a low cost Norwegian operator has changed their system to always have two in the cockpit. I'm a bit shocked that all airlines don't have this system already.

There's talk of having 3 pilots in planes but that it'll be cost prohibitive.

Like I said earlier - the problem came when the CDSS came into play. It basically left it down to the operator to decide on procedures, where it only applies by CAA law, if a camera isn't working - then a crew member goes into the cockpit. There are quite a few operators in Europe that do keep that procedure regardless....but certainly, with the big Charter operators - Thomson, Easyjet, Monarch, Thomas Cook to name a few UK one's...it can become a 'sales/service vs safety' culture...as having to call a crew member who is out doing a service, back into the galley, then into the cockpit, whilst the pilot takes a pee break, means a suspension or slowness in the service - and when you are on tight, short flights especially, it can have an impact - even though it's a poor excuse.

I hear Easyjet have now mandated 2 in the cockpit at all times.

Door, horse, bolted comes to mind.

I'm sure it was Easyjet (like I said earlier) that had a member of cabin crew standing outside the cabin door when a pilot went for a piss. It would have been so easy for a guy or a couple of guys sat near the front to brush her aside and get into the cabin and lock the door.

Doesn't normally work that way Dawg. Remember, the door is still locked even if she stood outside.

It was solely as the pilot came out, but then they should have closed the curtain when that happens anyway....just to try and make it visually harder.

Dunno Bluey, I just thought it looked to easy a chance to barge in. I know he locked the toilet door though!!!

Guess we'll see a lot of this in the coming days:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/03/breaking-german-news-germanwings-airbus-co-pilot-was-muslim-convert/

That seems a very racist publication. Reports seem to say that he had suffered some issues a few years ago and had been treated for depression. He also had an illness which he hid from his employers and was supposed to be off sick on the day of the crash.

Yeah, let's blame it on Islam, cos they are clearly to blame :rolleyes:

This doesn't explain why we never see reports of planes belonging to Etihad, Emirates, Singapore Airlines and the like, falling out of the skies when on long haul flights from the infidel countries. It's nothing more than a knee jerk response to a piece of irrelevant info. And all it serves to do is persecute a section of the global community.

This is a simple act of protocol not being followed leading to a horrible tragedy, which was bound to happen sooner or later. To make out it's something else is, at best, scare mongering and at worst, blatant race hate.

I'd hardly include Singapore as being a Muslim country Leo, but I get what you mean!

Poor rules, badly followed.

Sadly....no rules, not allowing them to follow any. Poor risk management by lots of airlines.

Spoke to some friends currently flying - and they said the 'rule' of a crew member being in the flight deck when a pilot goes to the toilet was gradually fazed out a year or so ago.

I checked with the DfT and they don't have a specific rule governing this any more - airline's interpretation of the regulation.

There's NO one thing that can stop this. Even a pilot-only toilet at the front of the aircraft a la El Al, wouldn't necessarily stop it completely. What's to say the pilot doesn't use the fire-axe in the cockpit to kill the other pilot?

For now, the safest way will be for a crew member to be in there during a toilet break - and for airlines to start taking security more seriously again.
It's all cyclical....after 9/11, we were all at a heightened stay of awareness for a year or so afterwards....then as the years pass and nothing major happens - people tend to relax a little. Then something else major happens like the liquid explosive plot of 2006....and we are all back on heightened alert again - but only for a while.

I'd like to see ALL airlines take ownership for this and ensure their crews are doing EVERYTHING possible to make flying safe and especially SECURE. Any pilot/crew member found not following the rules should be severely disciplined.

I've seen it - when I used to line-train, all the crew would do everything to the book - but I know when it went back to normal, so would they. Human nature.

Human nature makes us lazy. Terrible to see so many airlines so lax on security. This guy seems to have been waiting for the right opportunity to carry out this atrocity. 2 people in the cabin can't stop everything but it will cut the risk dramatically.

2 people in the cabin wouldn't Dawg...but 2 in the cockpit might.

UK CAA have sent us all a reminder that they would like ALL UK airlines to re-assess their safety and security procedures and have 2 approved personnel in the cockpit at ALL times.

Not mandatory - but sort of hints that they would prefer it.

Like I said earlier - "door, horse, bolted"

This should have been always the case....it's just allowed airlines to become lax over flight deck security in recent years.

Now newspapers are claiming they have video of the last moments INSIDE the plane. I don't even want to think how they got that.