A very interesting article on youth football/academies (Chelsea's)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3562660/Chelsea-s-kids-won-trophy-youth-coaches-working-dead-end-t-just-blame-Jose-Mourinho-managers-comes-man-top.html

Can we see any comparisons in these debates to ours? I can. I'm hoping that will change with Pep and the new academy strategy of playing 16's in the U18 category, U18's at U21 level....but what happens to our current crop of U21 players? Does our change in strategy mean it hasn't been working by not getting the likes of Barker, Celina, Lopes, etc...into the first team squads more often?

It'll be interesting to see how our academy fares next season and who, from the current crop of older ones remain at the club and get promoted to the first team....it's almost like a 'rip it up and start again approach'....does that mean that all the faith is now being put in our U14/16/18 players, because the older group just aren't good enough?

Interesting comparisons and debate in the article.

It's tough to put your finger on it. Are they changing because the youth haven't been good enough (EDS) or that they haven't been given a chance? IS the moving up of the kids in age groups to make them stronger and challenge them more to separate the wheat from the chaff? Is it to find out sooner if they have a chance of making it or not?

I'm not sure what the reason is and why we've failed to deliver any youth products for the last few years but I'm sure it has something to do with them not being given enough of a chance for ling enough.

Ali & Afobe were both given a few years to shine at MK Dons & Wolves before stepping up
Maybe we should just get rid of the EDS & start shipping em out to the 1st Division If they don't shine at ages 18/19/20/21 there then they ain't gonna make it in the PL

I'm sure we can't loan players out and demand they play. But we can sell them with a buy back clause. It's then up to the kids to succeed on their own merits and, if they do make it, we can get them back into the fold two years later after they've proved themselves good enough and got the experience of maybe 60-70 games under their belts.

Teams like Bury & Bolton could be a great Academy 
for the youngsters

Couldn't agree more, Bury have already taken Ian Lawlor this season...and i'd be more than happy to see more sent to Gigg.

we should pick a club and send them as many kids on loan/sale as possible. Imagine Bury having 6 or 7 of our best kids playing week in week out, getting 50 games a season. Give them two years together. Bury get promoted, they play at a higher level and are ready for the step up to PL.

Isn't this just what Chelsea are doing? Hence the point of the article - albeit they send them on loan rather than a buy-back policy (which in theory, makes sense).

Why are the likes of Alli, Dier, Rashford etc given a chance at one club, yet we are supposed to have these 'very good' talents in our EDS, but they are not given a chance?

I don't like this 'buy everyone' approach and then loan them out. I'm much more hopeful that we will be able to develop a large proportion of the youth set up ourselves, get them playing the way the first team play - and promote them through each summer - then, the natural wastage will be replaced by the next generation of players the year below.

Otherwise, we'll just become another Chelsea - have 60+ youth players between the ages of 16-21, with one or two, if we're lucky, making it into the first team squad.

Let's hope this new approach works and we have a Manager who will encourage progression and opportunities, whilst, at the same time, wins us trophies/titles - and therein lies the conundrum.

But that's always going to be the problem bluey. You have a 1st team squad of 25 filled with quality players. How can a youngster, no matter how brilliant they are or how much potential they have, get a serious look in with those players ahead of him and a manager who has to win stuff?

Next season we could have a MF of Nasri, Kante, Gundogan, Silva, Fernandinho, Sterling, Navas, Fernando, Kevin, Pogba. How can any kid get in ahead of that lot?

The problem with this is though, the PL now has prize money for the reserve/EDS leagues. So teams that are challenging at the top are reluctant to send too many kids out on loan, as it'll reduce the chances of said prize money.

shakencity wrote:The problem with this is though, the PL now has prize money for the reserve/EDS leagues. So teams that are challenging at the top are reluctant to send too many kids out on loan, as it'll reduce the chances of said prize money.

Another good point Den. Comes back to the PL looking after it's own brand - so therefore, it's going to take a maverick, or brave manager, to add these kids into the squad at the expense of upsetting a seasoned pro's ego....but I'm all for that if the seasoned pro isn't pulling 'substantial' weight (cough...Bony Idle).

Topdawg wrote:But that's always going to be the problem bluey. You have a 1st team squad of 25 filled with quality players. How can a youngster, no matter how brilliant they are or how much potential they have, get a serious look in with those players ahead of him and a manager who has to win stuff?

Next season we could have a MF of Nasri, Kante, Gundogan, Silva, Fernandinho, Sterling, Navas, Fernando, Kevin, Pogba. How can any kid get in ahead of that lot?

My 'conundrum' I mentioned Dawg. It's not easy - I'm certainly not saying it is, but unless we lose this attitude in the media and by fans on forums like this, that want a 'Class of 92' at their club....we'll have this debate until another generation like theirs comes along - which probably won't be in my lifetime.

We as fans of clubs want success AND we want it with our own youth. That's the dream scenario. But is it realistic? Really?

Would any of us be prepared for us to take a chance on youth for next season, or the next after that, and miss out on trophies/CL places - so we could see our youth get a chance? I'm sure deep down most of us would say 'absolutely'.....but would we, really???? I'm not so sure.

There has to be a way around it - where we can introduce 2/3 academy players into the first team squad and give them 15-20 games a season....there has to be, otherwise, our academy means nothing. We're not talking about 7-8 academy players - just 2/3 of them who get regular opportunities in the PL, not just a League or FA Cup game every now and then.

Current HG in the squad is 8. Go down the academy trained route and be forced to include at least 2 academy trained kids in your PL squad.

Options the PL won't do...it's far too sensible Dawg.

I agree bluey. 15 non HG, 8 HG and 2 AT. That's yer squad, like it or lump it. If we'd had that this season, I'm sure a young keeper would have been 3rd choice instead of Wright for starters and maybe we'd have kept Denayer.

Maybe the AT is hard to actually do since they allow as many kids as you want. But still, decrease the squad size to 23 with 15 non HG and you are forced to have more kids in your squad in case of suspensions and injuries.

We'd have had to think longer and harder about keeping MDM at the end of last season for instance. And Big Willy too.

You make perfect sense...shame the PL chiefs don't.

Anybody see Denis Suarez set up the goal for Villareal?  Glad he's doing well but we have probably let a lot of our young talent go.

We lost a few. I thought he was ready to play a few years ago after seeing a cameo against Wolves in the League Cup where we hammered them 5-2 at their place. I thought he would replace Silva when he was injured/needed a rest.

One of our failings is that we didn't get the best kids on loan at decent clubs.