Chelsea v City Live Thread

[blueboy]

First topic message reminder :

So...massive game today. Just listening to TS and it's great to hear us being wrote off. What made me laugh were the comments made by Ray Parlour - "Chelsea know how to close out a title"....I nearly spat my water out! In the previous 3 seasons, haven't we come from 10 points off in 7th and 7 points off in 3rd to win the PL twice??

Anyway...guess it's better to go into this game as the underdogs...as long as we don't play them!!

Quick start absolutely necessary. Aguero needs to be firing like he was before his injury. Kompany needs to recapture his form from 3 seasons ago, so does Zaba.

Navas - as we all know he'll play, needs to stop doing everything he's been doing since he signed and start getting decent balls into players feet/head - preferably our players!

Not sure who he's going to pick, whether he sticks with the Ferdy twins or he brings Lampard in to try and unsettle the crowd and opposition players...which might not be a bad thing psychologically.
Even though I would prefer him to start, I think he'll stick with his predictable line-up instead of going all out to win this game - shit or bust....no points, 1 point or 3!

..................................................Hart.........................................................

....Zaba..............................Vinny.................DeM..............................Clichy....

.................................Fernando..................Fernandinho.................................

Navas............................................Silva......................................Milner.........

...................................................Aguero......................................................

[skyblueoz]

I think that expectation levels are now ten times higher than ever before. I am always disappointed when we lose or do not play well. By the standards we have now set in can understand that we can all be over critical in our assessments. it appears a common trait that pellegrini gets a verbal bashing on here when we lose or draw & he doesn't bring the subs on quick enough or he does not alter the shape, or react to the game.

I fully understand why he brought on Jovetic & Dzeko  maybe he was hoping one could just get that elusive goal we were looking fo. Like last season when one couldn't manage it another one always seemed to step up. We slag him off for not using subs correctly & when he does we slag him off.


Just my observations.!!!!!!!!

[blueboy]

I absolutely agree Bluey - its all about our opinions.


Considering we all think Chelsea has a superior team to ours, and only had Costa missing - while we had YaYa and Nasri out (and Aguero not quite at his sharpest yet), there were lots of positives in this game.


For me the back 4 have issues and I thought Demi in particular was missing yesterday, struggling to get back to his own goal - which he was guilty of against Arsenal too.


I saw several players slip yesterday - sometimes the highlights don't give the big picture - the great block or the 3 or 4 thru balls to Navas etc.  I watched the whole match again today - and saw Aguero pass to nobody a couple of times.  Silva did the same thing - but that's okay because of the positives they produced.

They had their top goals scorer out and a MF player with the most assists in the PL....Fabregas.

[Topdawg]

And a kid at CB and they'd played a tough game lasting 120 minutes only 4 days previously.

[blueboy]

I think that expectation levels are now ten times higher than ever before. I am always disappointed when we lose or do not play well. By the standards we have now set in can understand that we can all be over critical in our assessments. it appears a common trait that pellegrini gets a verbal bashing on here when we lose or draw & he doesn't bring the subs on quick enough or he does not alter the shape, or react to the game.

I fully understand why he brought on Jovetic & Dzeko  maybe he was hoping one could just get that elusive goal we were looking fo. Like last season when one couldn't manage it another one always seemed to step up. We slag him off for not using subs correctly & when he does we slag him off.


Just my observations.!!!!!!!!

Maybe you're correct, expectations are considerably higher. We're a club that have spent over £600m on players in the last 7 years...so they should be higher. We're a club that won the PL last season...so it should be. This season, the Manager can't get a tune out of these players, him and the board have bought bang average players. As a club we've seen us get knocked out of the C1C by Newcastle, at home 2-0 after an absolutely dreadful performance.
We've seen us scrape into the last 16 of the CL.
We've seen us claw back 8 points on Chelsea, only to go and throw them away through inept performances, and we are now 5 points behind them with the pack closing in on us.
We've seen us once again, go out of the FA Cup at home 2-0, to a Boro side that we should be easily beating with a 2nd string squad.

There are a myriad of other reasons why some on here slag him off.

For me personally - he's tactically inept, too rigid and for his whole love affair with Navas alone - he pisses me off. Do I come out asking for him to be sacked immediately? No. I simply call it as I see it. When he has done something well as a Manager - I always praise him (re-read my posts on previous games).
However, this season is fast becoming like Mancini's last with the club - no consistency, poor squad selection, a lack of motivation on the pitch and too many poor results against teams that we should be beating.

And you honestly wonder why some on here are 'slagging' him off, as you say?

[Topdawg]

Two things that really piss me off is our corners and Navas. Most of our corners don't even beat the first man. It is probably over 150 corners we've had since we last scored from one which is absolutely ridiculous. I'd love to know the stats from other clubs. It's embarrassing when it should be a great chance for us to score.

Then there is Navas. The guy who has had more minutes than anyone else this season. I accept that he's a great asset for getting back defending (only he could have got to Hazard when Chelsea broke on Saturday) but his main purpose should be as an attacker. Here, he falls down badly. He cannot beat his man. He fails to even try most of the time. He generally escapes from the LB when the ball is played for him to run on to. But then half the time he delays his cross and generally can't beat the first man. Look wheat happened when he did manage to out a dangerous cross in. Confusion at the back for Chelsea, a chance for us and a goal.

There are other things that grind my teeth, but these are twp that spring to mind quite quickly.

[skyblueoz]

Blue I was not directed just at you honestly. My beef is more about impatience, it appears we are becoming as fans, more and more like the arrogant red scum supporters I grew to despise. Instead of seeing if things can be turned round no a couple of losses through admittedly not playing well in the 
but this happens to most teams once or twice a season.

Last season we had a terrible start. The low point for me was watching a very nervous demichellis & defeat at home to wigan in the cup. Demichellis came thru that as I expect Mangala & Fernando to. I did not agree with signing Caballero & letting the beast go was madness given the timing. I just think when the dust settles we will be in for another exciting finish to the season. 

With regards the clawing back of 8 points, that was achieved largely thru December when we were without all strikers. The Burnley game & Sunderland at home were in my view pointers of what was about to happen. We had ridden our luck but unfortunately that was just the time Chelsea were dropping points so our performances were somewhat masked by the fact we had joined them at the top.
I still believe Pellegrini is the right man at the helm & the good times will be back soon. Their was enough on show against Chelsea to show we have the personnel & the capabilities. All we need is to stop letting players go out on loan. Sell the buggers so we can offset ffp.

[Topdawg]

Good points OZ, but I wouldn't use FFP as any sort of excuse.

Let me give you a for instance. Let's say we didn't buy Mangala and kept Lescott. Let's say we bought Fabregas and Costa and let the beast go (he wanted away for personal reasons).

Who do you seriously think would be top of the league?

[blueboy]

Oz....I didn't think it was directed at me mate.

I was just replying trying to explain why people are getting pissed off with MP.

I agree with some of your points, but also agree with Dawg about the way we have bought over the past 18 months.

I think there have been quite a few more games than Burnley and S'land this season where we have struggled.

Our football has been slow from the back, far too many passes in the second 3rd of the pitch and too many players are not playing to their potential through one reason or another.

The Chelsea game was unusual as they had played 120 mins mid-week against Liverpool, had Costa and Fabregas out...if they had a weeks rest prior to the game - I really don't think you would have seen us with that amount of possession and them not really troubling us for 45 mins - it was a strange, false result really.

I think last season we played some great football at times - this season, that just isn't happening. 

I'm not calling for his head - but as the Manager, he should surely take as much blame as the players/directors, as he gets paid to make the team play the best they can - but it just seems he has a Plan A...and that's that.

[ManCityMan]

The one stand out thing for me that had me screaming at the TV was the corner taken deep into the second half by Navas. It barely got 4ft off the ground and was easily just kicked away. Milner was slated in some quarters for taking a short corner from Navas in the last seconds but he probably decided it was better than letting Navas take another useless corner.

[Topdawg]

I think Jimmy was running out there to take the corner himself but that penis Navas passed it to him short!

[blueboy]

Agree MCM.

Navas just baffles me. I think we've all seen the same thing - he collects a ball, runs towards the defender, then stops, turns inside and passes it back to the RB or a MF. At that moment, players are making their runs to get into the box...but then have to stop, get back onside and the play generally then slows to a stop.

His crossing is nothing short or pathetic...but he continually gets picked game in game out. This shows MP's lack of ideas or a Plan B or C.

If we dropped Navas, we should be able to change the way we play to include another player. As it stands, we have a right winger, but no left winger - so it's all a little unbalanced as we have to use the likes of Clichy as a left winger - which then means we have a player out of position when the play breaks down.

The corner thing though....

[ManCityMan]

He should be dropped, we have a player in the EDS that can cross a ball better than he does.
Drop him and make him just practice taking corners during training all week.

[blueboy]

Barker normally plays on the left, but is right footed....that kid can beat a player at will - where Navas couldn't beat an egg.

Got to be worth a try FFS!

[ManCityMan]

Totally, thats the lad i was thinking about but his name eluded me in mid rant lol

[meltonblue]

Agree with all of that oz.

Navas frustrates the hell out of me too. The caveat I would say from the game at the weekend is we only had the runners getting into the box on a couple of occasions. Aguero and also Dzeko when he came on were guilty of not catching up quickly enough.

Everyone back, Navas won't play though, he will come on in the second half which is what I have always thought suits him more.

[Topdawg]

Even when we've had everyone available, Navas plays. he'll drop Jimmy before he drops Navas.

[blueboy]

Agree Dawg.

#photos #naked #Pellegrini #uncompromisingposition

[ManCityMan]

I agree Melton i would play Milner on the right and leave him on the bench when Nasri comes back in.
His pace later in a game against tired legs is more effective anyway.

[ManCityMan]

Yep, we know Milner will be on the bench instead 

[blueboy]

Agree with all of that oz.

Navas frustrates the hell out of me too. The caveat I would say from the game at the weekend is we only had the runners getting into the box on a couple of occasions. Aguero and also Dzeko when he came on were guilty of not catching up quickly enough.

Everyone back, Navas won't play though, he will come on in the second half which is what I have always thought suits him more.

I agree with what you said there about runners into the box being only a few....however, we are not expecting Navas to just take a player on and swing in a glorious cross onto a their head....there are far more things he can do, like take the player on to the by-line, pull the ball back to the edge of area. Take the player to the by-line, then cut it back for a RB to cross it when the players have caught up with play...or even, try and beat the defender and be direct into the box for a CB opposition defender to tackle him for a penalty.
There are always plenty of alternatives - he just doesn't do any of them, but when he does decide to cross, 99/100 its a poor one.

Even the Silva goal, that came from a poor mistake from the keeper which should never have fallen for Aguero...but do it enough times, into the danger area and things like that can happen.

I just think he's solely in the team for his pace - and possibly his tracking back. But that's down to how we play and are set-up by the Manager, so it really ends up with little end product after 90 mins.

[meltonblue]

He didn't, neither of them would, he played mainly 442 with two strikers last year. His preferred front six is Toure, fernandinho, Nasri, silva, Aguero and now i think it will be Bony.

When they are fit, it depends on the opposition. Milner got the nod away against both Bayern and Barca last year.

Nasri is the one though that we struggle to replace. He allows silva to really shine.

[meltonblue]

Agree with that blueboy, I'm not sure with Toure and Nasri out how else we could have lined up though.

[Topdawg]

So Navas is there purely for his defensive role? There are others better suited to that role. Since he offers so little going forwards, maybe someone else should get a go.

I'd love to be a journo and put questions to Pellegrini.

What, offensively, does Navas bring to our team?
Why can't we cross the ball from corners or general play?
Why haven't we scored from a corner from over 150 consecutive corners? Do you not practice in training?

[meltonblue]

No, Navas is there because our first eleven seem to never all be fit!

The last two seasons, an attacking midfielder that can play wide is the position I've thought we've missed the most as it means we have to change shape and become more rigid when either Silva or Nasri are missing.

It's why, if we can, I think we should go all out for Reus and why we have been interested for two years (and why Pellegrini wanted Isco).

[Topdawg]

I said a few weeks ago that we've missed out on some stellar talent these last 3 seasons (such as ISCO, Hazard, Sanchez). Any of them would have made our team a much more formidable opponent and they would have provided us with that wide talent that we crave.

But there still seems so many positions that we want better players: CB, LB, DM. It makes you wonder where all our money has gone as we really should be the bees knees by now.

[meltonblue]

Yup agree with that dawg. 2011 was the last time we bought well, with a couple of exceptions. On the main, not great at all.

[blueboy]

Actually, if you look at Sanchez Dawg (that's a good point):

1. He's quick
2. He works hard in defence for the team

Two attributes of Navas.

And that's where the similarities end.

Sanchez can:

3. Cross a ball
4. Take players on with skill
5. Play cute balls in for the strikers
6. Score plenty of goals

Now, the only difference now is the price to buy em:

1. Navas cost us £22.9m
2. Sanchez cost Arsenal £35m

I would hazard a guess that both will be on similar wages give or take £20k pw.

£12m difference for a player like Sanchez or Navas.

Madness.

[Topdawg]

Navas was supposed to cost us nearer to £15M and his wages are about £40k per week. Sanchez is getting about £150k p/w in wages. Maybe FFP is the reason why we have Navas and Arsenal have Sanchez, why we have Sinclair and Chelsea have Hazard.

FFP isn't the reason but it does make an impact. What's more important is that we are making the wrong decisions. Don't buy Mango and extend Lezza for a year and buy Sanchez instead and we'd be laughing. Buying Sanchez and Fabregas would have cost us about £65M which we'd have got back with the sales we did make (Garcia, Rodwell, Negredo). Hell we could even have got ourselves Costa as well and made the numbers work.

Hart
Zabba, Kompany, Dimi, Clichy
Silva, Yaya, Fabregas
Sanchez, Costa, Aguero

[Guest]

The MOTD pundits were raving over Navas on Saturday.  Saying he can be frustrating but that was one of his better games.  I only saw it on MOTD so can't comment, but 1 cross in 15 is simply not good enough at our level.

My stance on the manager hasn't changed since early on this season.   He is nothing more than a very lucky one and I want him replaced, whether we win the league or not.   He isn't capable of taking us where we want to be.  It's Bobby Manc mkII and we need better.

I think we may have ridden this blip with that performance though, a good win against Hull and then if we actually get something at Stoke it should set us up again for a run into the Barca game and beyond.

[Topdawg]

From my viewing, Navas just won't or can't take the man on. He turns and passes it backwards or sideways which slows down the attack. I think Bluey has said the same. the only way navas gets a cross in seems to be when he plays a 1-2 or there is a through ball for him to run onto. Still, half the time he checks back and waits for a defender to be ready to block his cross. If there's no-one in the box, cut across the defender and, if he fouls you, he gets booked and we get a free kick or penalty. If you skip past him you may be able to have a shot (which you obviously need more practice on) and pass for someone to have a tap in.

[blueboy]

We see it....but the Manager doesn't. So it won't make a blind bit of difference, Navas will play week in week out...until he gets injured or the Manager gets the bullet.

[Topdawg]

He's getting a few million a year for what? Seriously, for what we've spent, and the players we have, he's underachieving.

[blueboy]

Not sure I can add anything else Dawg...said all I need to.

[meltonblue]

I still don't get where the opinion Navas always plays comes from, when everyone is fit he doesn't play. He started less than half our games last season.

Him and Milner have both been playing recently due to having no strikers as well as Nasri and Toure out, it hasn't been an either or. There simply hasn't been the option for him not to play.

[Paulpowersleftfoot]

I think we need to wait until Bony starts playing until we can actually see if Navas can play as a winger,unlikely I admit from what we've seen so far but we never have anyone in the box to cross to.
Aguero is usually loitering on the edge of the area rather than the 6 yard box,Dzeko won't jump anyway and seems to think he's the second coming of Samaras out there on the left wing and Jovetic is either out with a paper cut or too busy playing one twos with his array of imaginary friends.
Not since Negredo have we had a player willing to attack a ball in the box and don't get me onto our fucking corners

[Topdawg]

Who has started most games this season and who has most minutes? Hazard a guess...

Bony is a welcome addition but we should have been miles better already. He should have been the icing on the cake for us.

[meltonblue]

And given our injuries who is second...? Neither of them would be in the first XI for Pellegrini.

[blueboy]

OK....we all have had our say about the MP 2015 era so far.

So let's get a commitment from you all about who will play when the 2 from the Poxy-Con come back.

Not what you think is the best formation, what you think MP will play...as all I can read into the previous comments is that Navas only plays because of injuries....and I don't see where that is the case.

I'll start:

........................................Hart.....................................

Zaba.................Vinny..................Mangala...............Clichy

.......................TLMLF..............Fernadinho.......................

Navas...............................Aguero.........................Silva...

......................................Bony.....................................

Now that is what I think he'll play, NOT what I think we should play. I'd play that but with Silva on the right and Nasri on the left.

[meltonblue]

I think he'll play Nasri instead of Navas. I can't remember any games in the last two seasons when both silva and Nasri has played that he hasn't played them both.

Navas or Milner would play if bony or Aguero aren't.

[meltonblue]

Sorry, that made absolutely no sense!

What I meant to say was I can't remember any game when they haven't been injured where they haven't played!

[blueboy]

Fair enough Melton....I sort of got that.

I just think Bony will be the type of player that may thrive on width....as MP may see it, with Aguero off him. Unless he changes to the likes of Fernandinho and TLMLF playing long balls to Bony to hold it up, with Nasri, Silva and Aguero playing off the knock-downs.

Just don't see Bony as a player that likes intricate passing moves like we currently play under MP.

[meltonblue]

Yeah I agree with that blueboy.

The big difference between Pellegrinis 442 and Mancinis (as their preferred front four was identical, apart from perhaps Negredo for Dzeko) was that Mancini used Aguero behind whereas Pellegrini uses him as the most advanced striker. I can definitely see what you are saying though.

The problem with both of them, as we had earlier in the season, is how easily it can be overrun in midfield which is why Nasri is pivotal to it.

[Topdawg]

Even with 4 in midfield (against a 5) we shouldn't really be overrun. Maybe one of the strikers can drop back a little when we lose the ball. Obviously, it depends on which 5 we are up against (Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc.)!

[meltonblue]

It's why Nasri really helps as he tucks in centrally so we don't get overloaded.

It's fine against most as you say dawg. Barca and Bayern is a different kettle of fish.

Just bought myself and my son a ticket for the Barca game, they are an odd one to work out this year.

[Paulpowersleftfoot]

Hart
Zabaleta Kompany Mangala Clichy
Yaya Fernandinho
Nasri Aguero Silva
Bony

If all fit that's my 11

[Topdawg]

My choice:

Hart
Zabba, Kompany, Dimi, Clichy
Fernandinho
Silva, Yaya, Nasri
Aguero, Bony

MP's choice:

Hart
Zabba, Kompany, Mango, Clichy
Navas, Fernandinho, Yaya, Silva
Dzeko, Aguero

[shakencity]

I'm having Demi instead of Mangala too....what a waste of money Mangala is.

If all are fit, this is how i'd like him to start.

............Little Joe
Zab.....Vince....Demi....Clichy
........Yaya....Fernandinho
Silva.........Aguero.......Nasri
.............Bony

[blueboy]

sort of missing my question. I never asked for YOUR preferred team, I asked who do you think MP will play, as it doesn't matter what we think.

RTFQ

[Topdawg]

RTFA

[blueboy]

Not you Dawg..

[shakencity]

RTFQ

Alright, put Mangala in instead of Demi then...that's what MP will play .

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