How bad has the premier league become?

5 years ago, the premier league was touted as the best in the world and it would have been hard to disagree. Utd or chelsea were making it to champs league semis and finals, arsenal were always up there and even liverpool would get through the group stages.

Watching Arsenal get totally outclassed at home to Bayern, it makes me wonder how far we have fallen.

Premier league champs can't even win a game in the group stages.
Champions league winners can't even get out of their group.
Arsenal being taught a lesson
utd look like they'll get through against a weak madrid side (remember utd didn't even get out of their group last year).

What has caused this slide?

I guess we have too many overpaid, under performing pampered 'stars'. I think Arsenal's wage bill is similar to Bayern's but the gulf in class is unimaginable.

better wage structure and support through 'standing crowd sections' ...

Arsenal are poor compared to previous seasons
City could and should have done better. It was the toughest group EVER tho
Chelsea have been on the downward spiral for the last couple of yrs despite winning the CL last season
The scum still have a good chance
If you look at the Barcelona, Dortmund & Bayern teams they are far stronger than ours. Bayern looked good in every department

I still think the PL is the best league and the ammount of TV coverage and global interest proves that. Ok, i accept the standard of previous years may have fallen but was it ever gonna be maintained?
Every player that wants to prove himself still wants to play in the PL (that's why i rate Ronaldo over Messi) and that won't change for the foreseeable.

Sure we didn't win a game in the CL this season but we we're a million miles away from actually getting through....2-1 up at Madrid after 87mins, should have had a penalty in injury time at home to Ajax to win it and should have probably beat Madrid at home too.....i know it's all "ifs buts and maybes" but someone had to miss out, unfortunately it was us!

The Rags should beat Madrid to go through and have every chance of getting to the final.
As Tony said, Arsenal have been poor for a while now. I know Bayern looked good last night but did we not outclass the Arse at the Emirates this season?
Despite Chelsea going out in the CL, they will always be competitive in Europe and i'm sure (like City) they'll bounce back next season.

I just think abroad teams are getting better.

Bayern are a class side and on form at the minute. In Arsenals defence, if they had a better defence (excuse the pun) then they would have won last night.

I think it's always been better in Europe. The English sides that have one the Champions League recently have done so with "anti-football" to get past the likes of Barcelona and Chelsea last year might have won it, but it was crap to watch.

I don't think it was just Arsenal's defence that let them down.

Bayern pressed hard, just like Barca, Dortmund and Real tend to do. That pressure usually finds out the weaker teams like Arsenal and City

There's a number of reasons why PL sides are getting worse in the CL:

- Arsenal have sold all their best players and are weaker as a result
- Chelsea keep changing managers too often, so the team is in a mess
- United haven't got the money to blow on players like their Euro counterparts
- We have the money to improve the team, but FFP means we can't spend it

Our European counterparts don't seem to be hampered by the need to save money or curb spending, which means they can concentrate on drilling their teams to play decent football. Something we aren't able to do.

But surely FFP applies to them as well ?

It does, but when you think the Germans aren't big enough spenders to worry about it and the other main combatants appear to have loopholes built for them, it only really seems to apply to... well, us.

Platini