Pellegrini

Now i want to bring up what happened at 5-0 with still 30/35 minutes to go.

Surely this was a time to introduce a few fringe players, especially with Plzen to come in midweek....maybe give Milner, Richards, Dzeko or even Guidetti an half hour run-out.

Yet what did he do 1st (Lescott for Nasty was forced so i'm not counting), take Aguero off for Garcia....what the fuck was the point of this substitution..(1) He can't surely be saving Aguero for Weds night (2) He might aswell have took Yaya off if he was gonna throw him upfront.

Why didn't Dzeko replace Aguero?

Why didn't Guidetti replace Aguero?

Why didn't Milner replace Nasri earlier?

Why didn't Milner replace Yaya, with Nasri coming into the middle?

Why did Garcia come on at all?

My point to this is, i'm still baffled and confused by the way Pellegrini thinks. This was the one substitution that should NEVER have happened at that time, yet it did.

Is it just me????

I can understand him taking Aguero off.........what I don't understand is letting Garcia anywhere near the pitch

No, Shaken, it's not just you.  I suspect we all feel the same about that substitution.

Spurs were offering nothing in the way of a fightback.  Aguero coming off, yes, fair enough, given Sandro was doing his best to take him down by his best wrestling moves, he might have ended up injured.  Everyone around me was interested to see if Guidetti would come on, but everyone was equally astonished to see Garcia.  And I don't even think he got a touch.

The only thing I can think of is, "Shop Window".  Although the fact he did nothing against such a feeble Spurs side would, I suspect, just make him less valuable.

I heard Jason Manford on TS yesterday morning talking to Mickey Quinn.....and his words were.."Garcia is garbage".

He has to offload him January....

Maybe Guidetti was there just to integrate him back into the squad.

Maybe this was part of my 'boredom' from my other thread. It would have been more fun and exciting to have Micah and Guidetti around. I'd have been happy with Dzeko and Guidetti just to give them game time.

Plzen shouldn't put up much opposition and I really don't see why Aguero and Nasri would be playing in that game at all.

Any of those subs (except Garcia) would have been better than what he did.

That was kinda my point. When Garcia came on for Aguero, he pushed Yaya up top. I know we were 5-0 up but the whole impetus we had just evaporated in that second and yes Dawg i too got bored in the last 30 minutes, as the game just fizzled out........just because of this change. What was the purpose of putting an inept Yaya in a more advanced role when Guidetti and Dzeko are on the bench crying out for game time?

Any other substitution may well have kept the same tempo, momentum and hunger for more goals. We could easily have won by 7, 8 even 9 goals yesterday, as there was still half an hour to go. Don't get me wrong here, i'm more than happy with the result, i just didn't understand the resoning behind slowing the game right down when we were so comfortably on top.

Because slowing the game down not only helps the players refresh for the next game, but also significantly decreases the chances of an injury.

Jordan wrote:Because slowing the game down not only helps the players refresh for the next game, but also significantly decreases the chances of an injury.

Wtf!!!!!

Half of the team that started probably won't even be playing Weds night. The likes of Milner, Richards, Dzeko, etc, etc will start and should have come on.

He is worrying me if I have to be honest.  No sign of any idea what to do away from home and this arrogance that we are the better team so we are just going to win.   That seems to be how he thinks.

2 up top against Bayern as a prime example, even when he saw it was not working.

Now I am very happy we have harmony in the dressing room, but with the state of this league if we are not top by Christmas then I seriously think he is not up to the job.

I can't believe some of this that I'm reading today.

Spurs had the best defence in the league up until yesterday, and we trounced them 6-0. Granted, we haven't been the best away from home, but we have played well in the odd game (Chelsea). Give Pellegrini sometime, we aren't doing bad now at all. Arsenal's bubble will burst, Chelsea aren't exactly setting the league alight.

We just need a good couple of away games and that should shape our season nicely.

Interesting factoid number 16964:  The last time a team lost four of their first 12 league games and went on to win the league was in the 1967/68 season.  And if anyone asks who that was, I'm going to have to remove them from the forum.

Arsenal are the only team who are more than a win away from us right now.  If we beat Liverpool, we drag them below us.  If we beat Arsenal, we halve their lead over us.  It's just a shame we didn't get a result of any sort at Chelsea or they'd have been behind us now as well.  In fact, if we'd not slipped up against Sunderland, we'd be in second place right now.

Some people are in this mindset that we've blown it already, like we're in fourth and everyone above us is miles away.  But look at the table right now...  Spurs lost and dropped to ninth place, but are still only 8 points off the top.  It's that damn close that one game can change everything.  We've had two weeks where top teams have cocked up, if we have another and we capitalise on it, we could very well be second and with Arsenal within our sights.

I'm sure Manny will figure out that the front pair of Aguero and Negredo is working, he should not attempt to fix this.

leopold wrote:Interesting factoid number 16964:  The last time a team lost four of their first 12 league games and went on to win the league was in the 1967/68 season.  And if anyone asks who that was, I'm going to have to remove them from the forum.

Arsenal are the only team who are more than a win away from us right now.  If we beat Liverpool, we drag them below us.  If we beat Arsenal, we halve their lead over us.  It's just a shame we didn't get a result of any sort at Chelsea or they'd have been behind us now as well.  In fact, if we'd not slipped up against Sunderland, we'd be in second place right now.

Some people are in this mindset that we've blown it already, like we're in fourth and everyone above us is miles away.  But look at the table right now...  Spurs lost and dropped to ninth place, but are still only 8 points off the top.  It's that damn close that one game can change everything.  We've had two weeks where top teams have cocked up, if we have another and we capitalise on it, we could very well be second and with Arsenal within our sights.

I'm sure Manny will figure out that the front pair of Aguero and Negredo is working, he should not attempt to fix this.

I'm glad we share the same optimism Leo.

Thanks Jordan.  Although I think it's more a case of lower expectations brought about by the sheer volume of false dawns we've had in the past.  As long as we don't do anything to fuck it up beyond salvation then I'm okay with that.

The way I see it, Chelsea are our only threat right now.  Arsenal will fade in March as usual, Liverpool will slowly lose the plot and the rags are being held down by Southampton and aren't actually any better than Everton or Spurs.  All three of whom we've thrashed at ours.

Jordan wrote:I can't believe some of this that I'm reading today.

Spurs had the best defence in the league up until yesterday, and we trounced them 6-0. Granted, we haven't been the best away from home, but we have played well in the odd game (Chelsea). Give Pellegrini sometime, we aren't doing bad now at all. Arsenal's bubble will burst, Chelsea aren't exactly setting the league alight.

We just need a good couple of away games and that should shape our season nicely.

But he was sold to us as this master tactician "The Engineer" who has taken very ordinary teams to quite a high level.  I'm yet to see this. 

We are almost back to the original Mancini debate, where I still maintain he was a very lucky manager, he won the league because we simply had the best players.

I am not saying we should get rid of him or anything like that, but the jury is very much out on whether he has the "nous" to take us to the next level.  Next away game will probably tell us, but we've not learned much from the 4 losses so far.

I can't belive some of the negativity on this forum following another comprehensive thrashing of a main rival for a CL place if not the league. No we did not play as well as we have done in previous home games like the CSKA game (for the most part), but we were not terrible although we sat back after scoring early and spuds looked the far better team for 30 minutes or so until the own goal. However, we thankfully settled and took them apart, although i do agree with all the comments about the Garcia substitution, WHY?
Yaya is constantly being accused of being lazy and inept by 'shaken' in particular but i love the big guy he contributes a lot more than his deceptive ambling stature suggests. His possession when on the ball is fantastic his passing is usually just as good he takes brilliant free kicks and when he goes on one of his admittedly infrequent runs he cannot be stopped, as demonstrated with goal he set up for Kun while the knob Kyle Walker was trying to pull him back in vain. Are you seriously suggesting not playing him or substituting him yesterday? He was instrumental in much of what was happened yesterday in my view and is an integral part of this team, do you think Milner would be better or perhaps Garcia?

MCM,
Yaya did sweet FA when he was pushed further upfield yesterday but that wasn't the point of this post. My simple point was if MP took Aguero off, then why not replace him with Dzeko/Guidetti, baring in mind Dzeko will probably start on Weds night.....i'm was just failing to understand why he did what he did.
Who mentioned Yaya not playing?...and why couldn't Yaya be substituted?.....afterall, he took Aguero off.

Jesus Christ, think i'm goin friggin mad here

ps. I constantly accuse Yaya of being lazy because simply put, he's constantly lazy

I don't think, apart from the odd comment, anyone is saying MP is useless, he can fuck off...etc etc....I think some of us were simply questioning the fact that he brought Garcia on.

Whenever we can give Negredo, Nasri, Aguero, Fernando....a rest after 50-60 minutes, we should do...not that they are knackered, but to avoid injury, bookings etc when we have so many games coming up in the next 6 weeks.

However, to take Aguero off and bring on another CDMF in Garcia, at that point in the game (we were never gonna lose from 5-0)..and leave Negredo up on his own and ask Yaya to play in a no.10 role.....WAS simply baffling, especially as we did have Dzeko and Guidetti on the bench...and what better game to introduce Guidetti when you're 5-0 up?

As for Yaya - in the first half, his passing was abysmal...he improved in the second half and made some great runs...but he was woeful in the first 45 mins...that's fact.
TBF.....you asked if Yaya should've been brought off or rested...I'd say that's a good shout as he's pretty much played every games so far this season...and again, at 5-0...why risk any further injury when the jobs done?

blueboy wrote:
TBF.....you asked if Yaya should've been brought off or rested...I'd say that's a good shout as he's pretty much played every games so far this season...and again, at 5-0...why risk any further injury when the jobs done?

I said why didn't Milner replace Yaya...as an alternative to the substitution he made. I've never said don't play him in a PL game....he probably won't play Weds night, so he could and maybe should have taken him off, aswell as Aguero.

Anyway, i'm losing the will to live on this now. MP's fuckin with my head  .

How about if i say, I'm glad Garcia came on and did fuck all.
I'm equally as glad he sent Yaya up top to do fuck all as well, despite us having 2 forward sat on the bench.
I'm equally as glad that his substitution slowed the game down to bore the pants off us in the last half hour to consolidate a 5-0 lead, but hey-ho we were 5-0 up, so it's ok.
Wow, i actually feel better now.

I imagine he brought him on because he wanted to win 5 0 rather than 6 1. It also gives the chance for the team to play for half an hour with three in midfield in case he wants to revert to that away at times. We still scored and Fernandinho had his chance after Garcia came on, remember.

Perfectly happy with what he did and the game yesterday, seems incredibly nitpicky to criticise considering we just beat Spurs 6 0 and have scored more at home than any other club has scored both home and away.

Ok, maybe it's just me then.....i wanted 10

Could and should have been 8 den!

shakencity wrote:

blueboy wrote:
TBF.....you asked if Yaya should've been brought off or rested...I'd say that's a good shout as he's pretty much played every games so far this season...and again, at 5-0...why risk any further injury when the jobs done?

I said why didn't Milner replace Yaya...as an alternative to the substitution he made. I've never said don't play him in a PL game....he probably won't play Weds night, so he could and maybe should have taken him off, aswell as Aguero.

Anyway, i'm losing the will to live on this now. MP's fuckin with my head  .

How about if i say, I'm glad Garcia came on and did fuck all.
I'm equally as glad he sent Yaya up top to do fuck all as well, despite us having 2 forward sat on the bench.
I'm equally as glad that his substitution slowed the game down to bore the pants off us in the last half hour to consolidate a 5-0 lead, but hey-ho we were 5-0 up, so it's ok.
Wow, i actually feel better now.

Shaken...I'm backing up what you said...I'm with you on this.

I think the point is....I don't think anybody in their right mind thinks Garcia is up to our squad......so why not try something else?

Keep Yaya and Fernando in the CMF and add Milner to it as Shaken said?

We could have brought on Guidetti/Dzeko and Navas, Guidetti or Negredo could have gone out on the left to accommodate.

If he would have brought on anyone, other than Garcia...I don't think we be having this discussion...as we weren't at our best, but one thing I did like more than anything else...which I haven't seen so far this season.....is how quick we counter-attacked. How many times have we said "it's too slow"...?

Yesterday should be a blueprint for our away games....let them have the ball a little more....

See, my heads mashed with this blue, i'm misinterpreting posts now. Sorry mate!  

I'm actually going against Plzen on Weds, if MP fucks about with his substitutions i gonna run on and chin him    .

shakencity wrote:See, my heads mashed with this blue, i'm misinterpreting posts now. Sorry mate!  

I'm actually going against Plzen on Weds, if MP fucks about with his substitutions i gonna run on and chin him    .

  

shakencity wrote:See, my heads mashed with this blue, i'm misinterpreting posts now. Sorry mate!  

I'm actually going against Plzen on Weds, if MP fucks about with his substitutions i gonna run on and chin him    .

I'm going to that game too, shaken.  I can't run very fast, so I'm afraid I won't be able to assist.  But I will cheer if I see you going for it 

I agree with you Den. Why bring on someone who shouldn't even be in our squad rather than change like for like? If Aguero and Negredo get injured, which forward has had recent game time?

I only wanted 10 minutes of Guidetti time, enough to have a quick look at him and enough for him to know he's wanted here. 20 minuted of Dzeko time would also have been useful for him. Even though some on here want shot of him come January, he's our first backup so needs a few minutes here and there.

Totally.  We all know Garcia is shit.  We all say it.  Jason Manford said it.  I bet everyone on the Bluemoon forum says it, because they're a bunch of moaning buggers at the best of times.  It wouldn't surprise me if every Blue in the world has uttered the words, "Why is he playing?" at some point in their life.

I also suspect every Blue in the world, virtually simultaneously, uttered the phrases, "Why him?" and ,"Why not Guidetti?" on Sunday.

We basically played the last half hour with ten men.  What did we learn from that, precisely?  That we can beat Spurs with ten men when we're already five up and they've left arguably their best player on the bench?  Gah!!

I don't think we are being negative at all?  We know we can spank anybody (bar BM) at home.  It's the Sunderland, Cardiff & Aston Villa's where MP is not doing his highly paid job correctly.

We should have had a minimum of 7 points from those games.

We've 2 tricky away games in 4 days next week, Baggies and Southampton.   We will see what MP has planned for those, but you can bet Garcia will see gametime before James Milner, which is where our frustrations come from.

Well, the man's had a couple of dozen games in charge, these things take time.
I'm still optimistic, it's our to lose, so onwards and upwards.
Chin up people

He obviously took Aguero off because we were 5-0 up and not likely to blow it - and Aguero might have got a knock if he'd stayed on.  Rather Garcia got injured.  This time last year we wanted Nasri out.   Look at him now.  Give MP some time.  Like Jordan said - we are 4th not 14th.

And let's not forget, the rags wanted Taggart gone within six months of taking over from Ron Atkinson and they too felt his success with Aberdeen was a fluke.

the defeats away from home are frustrating all by 1 goal and all bar sunderland to a silly defensive error. Sunderlands goal was a foul on milner. I don't believe we should be over critical at the moment as for me the signs are looking good. The one thing about playing away is that the home side will not lie down , They are playing in front of their own fans and will keep coming back regardless It is up to us to take the chances & put these games to bed. We can't think ok we have scored job done. We have to use the same intensity we do at home & keep going for 90 minutes. ( preferably without Garcia) I felt for him last year as I thought he arrived, got injured and was prepared to give him time before passing judgement. I now know how wrong I was about him.