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Why was Guardiola so poor last season?

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Why was Guardiola so poor last season? Empty Why was Guardiola so poor last season?

Post by Topdawg Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:36 am

Poor is relative but we won nothing and never looked like challenging after a reasonable start to then season.

Lots of fans were very frustrated at some lousy tactical performances (anyone remember the drubbings away at Leicester and Everton?) and were quite vociferous with their complaints.

So why did Pep persist with his way of playing when some of the players couldn't handle it?

Was it because he had no choice?
Was it because he accepted the situation and wanted the players that would remain to keep working to his philosophy?
Was it because he was pig headed?
Was it to show the board that he needed big replacements in the summer?
Any other reason?
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Post by blueboy Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:05 am

I think it was all about his philosophy. You can't bring in a way of playing football across all levels of the club (ie academy, women) and then because you don't have a few players needed to improve the team, stop playing like you want to. 

I also think it helped to identify those who could and those who couldn't play his way...and what areas needed strengthening.
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Post by Topdawg Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:40 am

but we knew a lot of that already. FBs and Navas out.
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Post by blueboy Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:58 am

Topdawg wrote:but we knew a lot of that already. FBs and Navas out.

I'm sure most of us would have thought the likes of Otamendi and Delph would have struggled under Pep. Some weren't happy with Sterling, even Fernandinho was under scrutiny. 

It's semantics...as what he's done this season, who he's brought in, merits whatever he did last season. Remember, after the first 10 games, we were all excited...seems some of the players legs over a season, just couldn't cope with his high-press and energy.
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Post by leopold Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:02 pm

I'd like to think Pep was brought in because of his philosophy, but I suspect it's more to do with his knack for winning trophies.  However, given that this trophy haul of his was down to his philosophy, the owners had precious little choice than to let him get on with it.

He failed, as has already been said, because our squad at the time wasn't up to the job. But as much as we knew which players wouldn't make the grade, he had to see it for himself.  And yes, we were bang on about all four full backs and Navas, but I don't think any of us saw Little Joe being hoofed out with immediate effect, nor do I think any of us foresaw Otamendi turning into a proper defender. Fernandinho has gone from strength to strength in the DCM role and Spanish Dave is just getting better with age.

And I think the biggest surprise of all was Delph turning out to be a properly good player. He was deemed to be gone before he even got a chance at kicking a ball, and now he's getting called "Delphinho" (or at least he will be when I get my way!!) and he's giving Pep food for thought when Mendy gets fit.  Who the hell saw that happening?  It's the biggest transformation of a doomed player since, ooh, Zaba, I'd say.
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Post by Topdawg Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:07 pm

I'll agree mainly Leo. Little Joe didn't fit into the way he wanted his keeper to play and didn't;t seem to want to try and fight it out. If he had, he'd have played a fair number of games after Bravo turned out to be a turkey at stopping shots (for whatever reason opponents had shots).

He's definitely improved some players beyond recognition.
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Post by leopold Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:25 pm

I must admit, I was very surprised at how Little Joe just conceded defeat so readily. Especially considering how he was farmed out to Birmingham in favour of Shay Given and how he worked his socks off to prove he was good enough, and then how he fought back from being dropped in favour of Pantilimon after a few dodgy games. I thought he had some fighting spirit, but it seems I was wrong.

But then we see how dreadful he was at Torino and now how he's not even a regular starter at West Ham.
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Post by titbumwilly Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:44 pm

I've just finished the Pep biography and it seems that he expected to win nothing last season, and this season has perhaps gone better than even he expected.
It's an amazing read that shows that absolutely nothing has been left to chance. The 3 year plan is on course and for the bitter rivals who say that next season will be a come down are in for a surprise.
As for Joe, he knew well in advance that Pep was coming, and knew what would be expected of him, but he chose to not work in the areas he was weak. How many times did we moan about him kicking the ball to the opposition or into touch? He either thought he was too big to improve his game or he felt he wouldn't be good enough for Pep's style and conceded defeat before he arrived. I suspect there was a bit of both.
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Post by leopold Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:59 pm

Damn, and that's yet another book to add to the pile of books I need to read!!
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Post by blueboy Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:59 pm

It's a great read.
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Post by blueboy Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:00 pm

Didn't we all have a big debate over Joe Hart, with some saying what Pep did was ridiculous?
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Post by Topdawg Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:18 pm

blueboy wrote:Didn't we all have a big debate over Joe Hart, with some saying what Pep did was ridiculous?
I think we were split 50:50

Many were surprised to see Joe pushed side so easily (and for Joe not to fight for his place). Even the 'shitty' fullbacks stayed and played the full season. For what we got from Bravo, it did look a little silly. 

Ederson is something else though. I still think his positioning leaves a little to be questioned, but he's definitely helped by us being a better team too.
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Post by skyblueoz Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:15 pm

The reason I believe we were split over the joe debate was because we did not replace joe with anyone better. Had Bravo come in and started like a house on fire the debate would never have happened.

I also believe that pep wanted to strengthen the midfield & attack first and as he couldn't replace the whole team in 1 or two transfer windows the defence was  the position he probably had to concede he couldn't replace. After not getting Laporte but getting stones he then had to set about trying to make do with what he had.

Financially there was no way he could outlay 200 million on defenders aswell as the midfield & attacking additions we had last season. UEFA & FFP would have been scrutinising our every move.
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Post by Topdawg Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:30 pm

Sorry Oz, we had the money to buy two maurauding fullbacks and they wouldn’t have cost us £50 a pop either. We could have had rose and walker for about £60-£70M the summer before
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Post by blueboy Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:04 pm

why is this a debate?
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Post by Strange Blue Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:05 pm

In hindsight there is no doubt that we should have gone in for two top fullbacks (4 fullbacks over 30 could never work in a Pep team) , but I think Pep wanted to give all the players a fair chance to prove themselves. Having said that we would not have been able to buy Walker & Mendy wasn't on the horizon as Monaco was just starting their amazing season, oh and we needed 4 not 2 full backs.  In fact we needed too many players to change in one season. Now we are close. Fullbacks (with Delph included) check. Center backs, check. Some may disagree but strikers check (at least until Kun leaves) If we get Fred (I know many are underwhelmed)  then DMF check. Creative players (as long as Dave lasts) check. I think the only one left for Pep is a Sanchez type player who can play anywhere amongst the front 3 (hopefully someone who dosent loose the ball like Sanchez though) then we are complete. The punchline I dont think pep was ever going to win the prem with team that he inherited & he just couldnt change that many players in one season.
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Post by skyblueoz Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:14 am

like I said dawg, how often do teams change up to 8 or 9 players in 1 window? & expect them to hit the ground running also pep needed a certain type of player to fit his system which SB has alluded to may not have been available. Bringing in 8 or 9 players is playing Fifa unless you are a championship side comiong into the prem like Huddersfield it isn't the norm.
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Post by skyblueoz Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:17 am

Also was Rose & walker available? I suspect not without a
 wealth of bargaining which would have dragged on all summer. & Rose over Mendy???? i'm glad we waited. I still think Laporte was the target for Centre back & Left back fill in when he turned us down late on the damage was done.
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Post by Topdawg Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:31 pm

Yes, Laporte turning us down was a ball ache
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