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Michael Oliver....
+2
Nijinsky
blueboy
6 posters
Page 1 of 1
Michael Oliver....
Refs have come in for an awful lot of stick lately, but Oliver showed that if you make the difficult decisions, don't cower to the home fans or the club name, their reputation can only improve.
He pretty much set the bar last night for the rest of the weaker refs in the PL.
I'm not posting it because it was the rags, even though that made it sweeter, but he made 6 or 7 BIG decisions last night, that a weaker ref may have shirked from.
From his early yellow card for Bellerin, through to the 3 dives, 2 for penalties, that all ended up with yellow cards for the culprit (United players)....it would have been easy for him to just wave away the penalty claim, but trued to stamp it out by cautioning them, though the United players didn't heed his warnings and continued to dive.
With DiMaria and the shirt tug...yes, it was petulant, but the way he took his time over the incident and made sure he made the correct decision was excellent.
I'm all for slagging refs off as they've been woeful this season, but fair play to Oliver last night.
He pretty much set the bar last night for the rest of the weaker refs in the PL.
I'm not posting it because it was the rags, even though that made it sweeter, but he made 6 or 7 BIG decisions last night, that a weaker ref may have shirked from.
From his early yellow card for Bellerin, through to the 3 dives, 2 for penalties, that all ended up with yellow cards for the culprit (United players)....it would have been easy for him to just wave away the penalty claim, but trued to stamp it out by cautioning them, though the United players didn't heed his warnings and continued to dive.
With DiMaria and the shirt tug...yes, it was petulant, but the way he took his time over the incident and made sure he made the correct decision was excellent.
I'm all for slagging refs off as they've been woeful this season, but fair play to Oliver last night.
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: Michael Oliver....
I totally agree I thought that was the best refereeing performances I've seen in many a year, and as you say not just because it was United. More referees need to step up and follow this example and who knows diving might actually get driven out of the game.
I wonder what would have happened if DiMaria or Young had had their shirts pulled the way Di Maria pulled Oliver's, I suspect they would have gone down in a heap and rolled around as if they had been shot.
I wonder what would have happened if DiMaria or Young had had their shirts pulled the way Di Maria pulled Oliver's, I suspect they would have gone down in a heap and rolled around as if they had been shot.
Nijinsky- Regular Starter
- Posts : 1858
Location : Cambridgeshire
Re: Michael Oliver....
Yeah, I thought he did an excellent job of marshalling what became an increasingly bad tempered game. He made sure not to forget to book Rojo for a flying tackle, but was sensible enough to note that Bellerin's challenge just after was clumsy rather than malicious - and he didn't sway to Rooney's pressure to get him sent off either. He booked the divers (and they were all dives) and as for Di Maria's sending off, he was very careful not to be rash, he pulled him to one side and told him what he'd done before dismissing him.
In fact, the only thing he didn't do was book Rooney for the constant haranguing, instead appearing to just completely ignore him.
I got the feeling that the BBC pundits were desperately trying to find something he did wrong, but when they replayed every incident, he got every single one of them right. Which proves it's not difficult to be a good ref. But clearly it's far too easy to be a bad one!
In fact, the only thing he didn't do was book Rooney for the constant haranguing, instead appearing to just completely ignore him.
I got the feeling that the BBC pundits were desperately trying to find something he did wrong, but when they replayed every incident, he got every single one of them right. Which proves it's not difficult to be a good ref. But clearly it's far too easy to be a bad one!
leopold- The Boss
- Posts : 7381
Age : 53
Location : Manchester
Re: Michael Oliver....
It was quite funny actually...when DiMaria tugged his shirt, he obviously had his back to Rooney and DiMaria.
When he turned around, Rooney gave DiMaria a look of "wtf?"....sort of helped Oliver know who did it.
When he turned around, Rooney gave DiMaria a look of "wtf?"....sort of helped Oliver know who did it.
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: Michael Oliver....
What a dobbing bastard Shrek is! No wonder Di Maria isn't happy there. Maybe Shrek thought he'd get away with it. Hah!
But this should happen more in football. We were discussing this last night, about how rugby refs wouldn't even put up with the melee of players arguing the toss, never mind being actually touched. Mark Lawrenson suggested it was "petty", but he's talking out of his arse and condoning the abuse of match officials. If you did that to a nurse or a bus driver or ticket inspector, you'd be having a word with the old bill.
But this should happen more in football. We were discussing this last night, about how rugby refs wouldn't even put up with the melee of players arguing the toss, never mind being actually touched. Mark Lawrenson suggested it was "petty", but he's talking out of his arse and condoning the abuse of match officials. If you did that to a nurse or a bus driver or ticket inspector, you'd be having a word with the old bill.
leopold- The Boss
- Posts : 7381
Age : 53
Location : Manchester
Re: Michael Oliver....
Ha ha! Just noticed one of my old work colleagues on facebook complained about the ref being biased. I presume by that he meant, not giving the rags everything they need to win the game. Still, he was always like that, blamed everyone else for their failings...
leopold- The Boss
- Posts : 7381
Age : 53
Location : Manchester
Re: Michael Oliver....
I just wish refs would show more consistency. Whilst I applaud oliver for his strong performance last night, I just hope he carries that into the next game & the one after that. The reason I say this is because the week before we played Uniturd at home Oliver was reffing Stoke v Swansea. He gave 2 pens one for persistent shirt pulling by shawcross in the area, The other for a tackle on Moses which was deemed by Gary Monk to be harsh as Moses made a meal of it. Oliver was totally castigated in the press all week over his decisions.
I said at the time I do hope all this criticism he has taken doesn't affect his next performance. City v Uniturd. well the bottom line was 3 legit pen claims totally waved away 2 were absolute certainties in many a supporters eyes the 3rd was,given olivers pitch position harder to see but still a definite penalty. Had he given 1 of the penalties the foul on Toure then Rojo would have been sent off.
I am not slating Oliver as I genuinely think he is a top ref along with Mike Dean probably the best 2 in the premier league. but I think the criticism he took swayed his decisions in the game against us. not necessarily on purpose but sub consciously it was a factor. he just did not want controversy or confrontation.
I said at the time I do hope all this criticism he has taken doesn't affect his next performance. City v Uniturd. well the bottom line was 3 legit pen claims totally waved away 2 were absolute certainties in many a supporters eyes the 3rd was,given olivers pitch position harder to see but still a definite penalty. Had he given 1 of the penalties the foul on Toure then Rojo would have been sent off.
I am not slating Oliver as I genuinely think he is a top ref along with Mike Dean probably the best 2 in the premier league. but I think the criticism he took swayed his decisions in the game against us. not necessarily on purpose but sub consciously it was a factor. he just did not want controversy or confrontation.
Last edited by skyblueoz on Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : missed out a word which defined the sentence)
skyblueoz- Cult Hero
- Posts : 5015
Age : 65
Location : Perth Western Australia
Re: Michael Oliver....
Then all the more pertinent for him to be praised after such a good display last night. Hopefully, it'll inspire him to keep that level of performance up and maybe other refs seeing it, may raise their game as well.
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: Michael Oliver....
fully concur blue
skyblueoz- Cult Hero
- Posts : 5015
Age : 65
Location : Perth Western Australia
Re: Michael Oliver....
Well after watching football for around 35yrs, i have never witnessed such a poor referring display as the one i saw on Satdi at Gigg. This fella defied belief with some of the decisions he made...even the Oxford lads were laughing at one point. I cannot point out individual errors (as there are that many), but look at the penalty incident (32 seconds in) in which he was 4 yrds away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbvJCX7MxDY
Not to be a sore loser, as i'm not really one for excuses, but he really should be struck off with immediate effect.
I watch the dirty Rags (on and off) last night and totally agree with the above posts....Mr Oliver had a great game, one in which he could so easily have been swayed to give Utd penalties n free-kicks through the diving antics of their players. Hopefully more referees will take note.....but i won't hold my breath.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbvJCX7MxDY
Not to be a sore loser, as i'm not really one for excuses, but he really should be struck off with immediate effect.
I watch the dirty Rags (on and off) last night and totally agree with the above posts....Mr Oliver had a great game, one in which he could so easily have been swayed to give Utd penalties n free-kicks through the diving antics of their players. Hopefully more referees will take note.....but i won't hold my breath.
shakencity- Cult Hero
- Posts : 8741
Age : 53
Location : Bury
Re: Michael Oliver....
Not really sure what he got wrong Den after watching that clip....other than rolling around the floor laughing at the defending, what else was he supposed to do?
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: Michael Oliver....
Oh, perhaps I'm being biased here then blue.
Nah I'm not, it definitely wasn't a penalty...even the lad who went down knew he was diving as he got up straight away....but the ref couldn't wait to give it.
Admittedly, it was shite defending for their goal....I think we were fucked by that point though
Nah I'm not, it definitely wasn't a penalty...even the lad who went down knew he was diving as he got up straight away....but the ref couldn't wait to give it.
Admittedly, it was shite defending for their goal....I think we were fucked by that point though
shakencity- Cult Hero
- Posts : 8741
Age : 53
Location : Bury
Re: Michael Oliver....
Bang on penalty Den. Bury's my 2nd team but looked like a pen to me
TMG- Key Player
- Posts : 3796
Re: Michael Oliver....
Oh bollocks, maybe it was then but i honestly think he was looking for it (i'll settle for a combination of both then) ......the ref was still a wanker
shakencity- Cult Hero
- Posts : 8741
Age : 53
Location : Bury
Re: Michael Oliver....
Referees are not the only ones who need to up their game. That call extends to Manchester United’s Monday night divers, the England captain and the army of moral relativists who seek to erase every sin in their own team by pointing out everybody else’s.
You know the drill. Michael Oliver, the referee in the Manchester United-Arsenal FA Cup quarter-final, cannot be praised for a brilliant performance with cards and whistle if he has made so much as a single error in the past. He sends off Angel di Maria, correctly, and the howl goes up: “Yeah, but in the Capital One Cup third-round two years ago he let so and so stay on the pitch after a foul in the box, so all credit is withheld.”
There has been no choice in a season of sliding standards but to bash match officials for confusion and vacillation over dangerous tackling, diving and the daily Punch and Judy of the coaching zone, in which fourth officials are too busy listening to managerial monologues to notice significant incidents (Diego Costa standing on Emre Can, for instance).
This generation of referees and their assistants do seem paralysed by the thought: "Which decision will cause me the least grief?" They are tried and condemned by multiple review, mass punditry and social media anger. But there is a vast hole in this form of justice. Players, managers, fans and, yes, media types, are dodging their own responsibility to judge decisions fairly and not through the prism of tribal interest or commercial noisemaking opportunities.
The wearer of the England armband jumped into that category during Arsenal’s 2-1 victory over United. Wayne Rooney’s constant badgering of Oliver over the night’s two biggest disciplinary issues was redolent of John Terry in his most, shall we say, interventionist phase. Rooney is renowned for his willingness to play in every position on the training ground, and he plainly also fancies himself as a ref, because each time Oliver tried to gather his thoughts the England captain was in his personal space, urging, chuntering, trying to influence.
Both times Oliver was right. Adnan Januzaj’s dive in the Arsenal penalty area was so late it almost belonged in the next fixture between these two sides. A faint touch of the hand from Nacho Monreal made painfully slow progress from the nerves in Januzaj’s arm to his brain, and down he went, with his assailant already comfortably beaten. Oliver showed him a yellow card for simulation but Rooney considered this clear-cut case worthy of a Socratic debate.
We then move on to Di Maria also throwing himself down on minimal contact and then grabbing at Oliver’s yellow jersey from behind: an offence guaranteed to earn a second caution, or straight red, in other circumstances. Again Rooney formed a one-man delegation to persuade Oliver that night is day and vice versa. It was impossible not to marvel at the chutzpah of a player denying such clear evidence in the hope that he could confuse the official into mistrusting his own eyes (or sensations).
Senior player seeks edge by trying to influence ref – shock! Every professional footballer would spit their tea at the idea that a player must serve as a kind of aide or evidence gatherer to a match official; that a captain’s duty is to see justice served. The word is not like this, and the higher in sport you go the more likely you are to see money shape motivation.
But we want it both ways. Players want to pose as martyrs when retrospective action nails them for stamping or elbowing or racism; managers want to be allowed to excoriate refs for bad offside decisions or erroneous red and yellow cards; and Manchester United fans (like all others) want to shut down discussions about their own players diving by citing moral equivalence, and reciting falls by other players on other teams in other games.
Rooney’s harassing of Oliver was not from the Roy Keane/Andy D’Urso school. It was more diplomatic than that. But it showed what players think of current Premier League referees. They think they are generally weak, or lack confidence, and sense that the men in black cannot rely on support from their employers, who are up against the power of the big clubs, and the mass indignation of fans.
United’s diving problem is no worse than that of other Premier League teams. But Di Maria and Januzaj were bang to rights and Rooney’s support for them disingenuous. Yes, Di Maria was touched, but until the authorities spell out that “contact” does not automatically justify a delayed tumble then players are going to carry on forcing officials to make difficult judgement calls, with the inevitable long-term effect that confidence in them is eroded by the shouting and outrage.
So there is more to “helping” match officials than giving them technological assistance – the starting point, certainly. Fans could stop reciting old grievances to cancel out the kind of good decisions Oliver made, managers could stop their players “going to ground” so easily, and the whole circus could decide that systematic attempts to con match officials hurt everyone in the end – unless you subscribe to the theory that 30 per cent of the Premier League’s £5.1 billion TV deal is a payment for the bunfights.
Whichever way it goes, Michael Oliver said no to the pressure, no to the dishonesty.
You know the drill. Michael Oliver, the referee in the Manchester United-Arsenal FA Cup quarter-final, cannot be praised for a brilliant performance with cards and whistle if he has made so much as a single error in the past. He sends off Angel di Maria, correctly, and the howl goes up: “Yeah, but in the Capital One Cup third-round two years ago he let so and so stay on the pitch after a foul in the box, so all credit is withheld.”
There has been no choice in a season of sliding standards but to bash match officials for confusion and vacillation over dangerous tackling, diving and the daily Punch and Judy of the coaching zone, in which fourth officials are too busy listening to managerial monologues to notice significant incidents (Diego Costa standing on Emre Can, for instance).
This generation of referees and their assistants do seem paralysed by the thought: "Which decision will cause me the least grief?" They are tried and condemned by multiple review, mass punditry and social media anger. But there is a vast hole in this form of justice. Players, managers, fans and, yes, media types, are dodging their own responsibility to judge decisions fairly and not through the prism of tribal interest or commercial noisemaking opportunities.
The wearer of the England armband jumped into that category during Arsenal’s 2-1 victory over United. Wayne Rooney’s constant badgering of Oliver over the night’s two biggest disciplinary issues was redolent of John Terry in his most, shall we say, interventionist phase. Rooney is renowned for his willingness to play in every position on the training ground, and he plainly also fancies himself as a ref, because each time Oliver tried to gather his thoughts the England captain was in his personal space, urging, chuntering, trying to influence.
Both times Oliver was right. Adnan Januzaj’s dive in the Arsenal penalty area was so late it almost belonged in the next fixture between these two sides. A faint touch of the hand from Nacho Monreal made painfully slow progress from the nerves in Januzaj’s arm to his brain, and down he went, with his assailant already comfortably beaten. Oliver showed him a yellow card for simulation but Rooney considered this clear-cut case worthy of a Socratic debate.
We then move on to Di Maria also throwing himself down on minimal contact and then grabbing at Oliver’s yellow jersey from behind: an offence guaranteed to earn a second caution, or straight red, in other circumstances. Again Rooney formed a one-man delegation to persuade Oliver that night is day and vice versa. It was impossible not to marvel at the chutzpah of a player denying such clear evidence in the hope that he could confuse the official into mistrusting his own eyes (or sensations).
Senior player seeks edge by trying to influence ref – shock! Every professional footballer would spit their tea at the idea that a player must serve as a kind of aide or evidence gatherer to a match official; that a captain’s duty is to see justice served. The word is not like this, and the higher in sport you go the more likely you are to see money shape motivation.
But we want it both ways. Players want to pose as martyrs when retrospective action nails them for stamping or elbowing or racism; managers want to be allowed to excoriate refs for bad offside decisions or erroneous red and yellow cards; and Manchester United fans (like all others) want to shut down discussions about their own players diving by citing moral equivalence, and reciting falls by other players on other teams in other games.
Rooney’s harassing of Oliver was not from the Roy Keane/Andy D’Urso school. It was more diplomatic than that. But it showed what players think of current Premier League referees. They think they are generally weak, or lack confidence, and sense that the men in black cannot rely on support from their employers, who are up against the power of the big clubs, and the mass indignation of fans.
United’s diving problem is no worse than that of other Premier League teams. But Di Maria and Januzaj were bang to rights and Rooney’s support for them disingenuous. Yes, Di Maria was touched, but until the authorities spell out that “contact” does not automatically justify a delayed tumble then players are going to carry on forcing officials to make difficult judgement calls, with the inevitable long-term effect that confidence in them is eroded by the shouting and outrage.
So there is more to “helping” match officials than giving them technological assistance – the starting point, certainly. Fans could stop reciting old grievances to cancel out the kind of good decisions Oliver made, managers could stop their players “going to ground” so easily, and the whole circus could decide that systematic attempts to con match officials hurt everyone in the end – unless you subscribe to the theory that 30 per cent of the Premier League’s £5.1 billion TV deal is a payment for the bunfights.
Whichever way it goes, Michael Oliver said no to the pressure, no to the dishonesty.
blueboy- Legend
- Posts : 25330
Re: Michael Oliver....
Lets hope for consistency in his next match that is all I ask.
skyblueoz- Cult Hero
- Posts : 5015
Age : 65
Location : Perth Western Australia
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