Spurs away

First topic message reminder :

Good opportunity to get back to winning ways in the league against a bang average Spurs side,with silva et al out the team more or less picks itself with the David White wannabe preferred to Nasri on the sole basis that he'll keep the spud fullback in his own half

Hart
Sagna Kompany Otemendi Kolorov
Fernandinho lazyballs
Sterling Debruyne White
Aguero

On the train to Euston,packed with City & England rugby fans plus a lone spud who's taken the merciless ribbing very well so far
He's fully aware that Ricky Villa is a cunt now

Of course 1 under Mancini - sorry.  I didn't say I blamed the players 100% GSus - - 50% attributable to them and 50% to the manager.  I am trying to be fair and not blaming the poor workman for everything - mainly due to the fact we have sustained a lot of injuries.

Just like an office some staff/players don't need motivation. Silva, kompany, aguero...

A good manager gets the nost out of the staff that do need motivation.

I never called for Mancini to be sacked. At least tactically he was ok although in the end he lost the dressing room.

This guy is tactically poor and can't motivate.

I am not giving him credit for self motivated players winning trophies because as you see we have injuries and the guy cannot motivate the rest to play for him.

I think we gotta agree to disagree on this Wensdi.

Of course - we all see it differently - but the banter is not about Mancini being sacked is it - just like it's not about Maureen's fall from grace.

I don't get this sacking the manager either I have seen too many come & go & to s y pellegrini is just lucky is rubbish. That echo's of rag fans thinking. They said Mancini was lucky & we did not deserve that title either. He too was a supposed crap manager who was handed 3 serie a titles. So when we win the title by 10 points or more have it sewn up in April & have won the treble I guess only then will some say maybe it wasn't just luck? It doesn't matter who we get someone somewhere will say they are a crap manager & then go all out to justify it. it is a matter of opinion & I still think pel is a good manager. A couple of losses won't change my opinion of him.

Whats your obsession with maureen wensdi!  mancini was our manager and I never called for him being sacked. What i am trying to say is there comes a point where you think ok i am not going to blindly follow the religion of my forefathers. ..

There is logic and from my point of view MP has done nothing special.

Oz do you think the fact that a rag says you were lucky has blinded you to the fact that we were lucky? I am not saying the best team didnt win the league. All I am saying is we not performing well...if the team fights and the tactics are right i truly do not care if we lose 10 games in a row...

G-Sus you are clearly calling for the failed Engineer to be replaced - and he won just as much as Mancini won which in your opinion is "nothing special".  I think that would be a disaster for us.  As far as Big Fat Sam is concerned he would be suited to managing a championship side - not us.  If you don't see the analogy with Maureen then lets just forget it.

I see what you mean about moureen but I have never liked the prick. I dont rate his negative teams... but you cant seem to see my points... winning the league with the best sqaud and having handed over to us in that manner after so many poor games is nothing special yes.

Motivate the players? Is the huge salaries they are on not enough motivation? Maybe financial penalties for inept performances?

Never really got the motivation bit, especially for players on £150-250k pw.

Still, if you need motivation, check out the view from my office for the next week.

Lets not go there mancityman! You are either srlfmotivated or you need a kick up the arse no matter how much you earn!

You can naffoff and all blueboy!

We have had the conversation about motivation many moons ago (last year when we came 2nd).  I have a terrible boss at work who only likes to make snarky remarks and doesn't positively motivate any of us lenders in the office.  That said - we are all self starters as performance pays salary and bonuses.  I think these guys earning more per year than we can earn in a lifetime - need a kick up the arse if they are not motivated. It doesn't matter a jot whether you like Maureen or not - what has happened to his team?  Just as expensively assembled as ours.  Anybody calling for his head on a plate yet? 


All of the above is said with a smile - no hard feelings.  Just banter.



See below for my weekend pic

I don't hold with this "sack the manager" reaction either.  Last season, he was getting it all wrong and after a whole season of doing it, you'd be forgiven for thinking he'd be for the bullet.

But he wasn't.

And this season he's changed the formula to a 4-5-1, something we were crying out for last season.  And it worked for a few weeks, until the international break, where some of our key players got a knock.  Since then, it's not really worked thanks to missing key players.  So who's responsible for the lack of squad cover?  We could point the finger at the manager, but Tricksy Burgervan is the man in control of this.

The manager is responsible for motivating players, yes.  He managed to do that for the first four games and, even against Palace and West Ham, there wasn't a lack of effort.  Neither was there against Juventus.  Against Spurs, a few heads dropped when the impetus turned against us.  So who's responsible for that?  Well, granted, the manager should fire the players up, but how much can he really do when you're 20 minutes into the second half?  You can't march onto the pitch, call a timeout and give them a rocket.  That's the job of the captain, and he just didn't do it.

Which brings us onto the captain choice.  Vinny is the natural choice here, he's a good leader and excellent motivator who leads by example.  With him not on the pitch, I'd say Hart was the next best choice.  But he wasn't there at WHL either.  So who do you pick next?  TLF is experienced, but he's no Vieira as a communicator.  Serge is too far up the pitch to be of help, Silva is too quiet, Sterling is too young, neither of the Brazilians look up to it either.  Demichelis?  Maybe.  But who's fault is this?  Maybe the manager could suggest some leadership courses, but it's a bit late once the season has started, but what were the odds of both Vinny and little Joe being injured at the same time?

As for picking the squad, I grant you that we were a bit hamstrung in this game with injuries, but how often have we had people here slate Navas, then turn around and say he SHOULD have been on the pitch for this game?  He has speed and that's it.  He'd have offered very little.  So the manager is chastened for picking him and then chastened for NOT picking him.  Who's at fault there?  You can't blame the manager for fans being unrealistically fickle.

And the final point, are we not all sick to death of the managerial merry-go-round?  I point to the swamp and all their "Fergie Out" comments in the early days.  Had they got their way, we'd be looking at the rags as being similar to Arsenal and not the most successful club in the PL.  Who's to say Pellegrini can't get us there?  He's had what, two seasons?  He may be considered lucky with the first season, but I disagree:  Having that success straight off the bat has raised expectations way above what they should be and it's now a rod for his own back.

He may have his flaws, but we're not exactly stranded a whisker above the relegation zone with a title winning squad who suddenly look like strangers.  We had a bad game, made worse by the fact we were missing key players thanks to that bloody stupid international break.

Oh, and didn't someone say not long ago that winning manager of the month was a jinx?

All good wensdi banter/discussion all good...

Leo I guess only time will tell which one of us is closer to reality. I hope I am wrong...

Yep, we'll find out one way or another. I just hope I'm right as well, even though the signs aren't especially hopeful.

Good post Leo and made a fair few points particularly about Navas which is funny really damned if he does and damned if he don't .  Three posters on JA606 seem to feel the same way - I just hope that we see the spine of the team back into the squad this week - and that every man jacks steps it up a notch.  We did have a brilliant start - everyone fit - but it's gone downhill since then.

Nice pic Wensdi. Where's that?

I don't want the Manager out either - only if Pep became available.

I'm not fussed on Klopp or Ancelotti, so stick with MP and see where it takes us. 

I've given him stick on here, just like others have. We started off really well. Sterling looked to be the key with Navas wide and Silva in behind Aguero.

KDB looks a great addition, but we've had a terrible run of injuries which, when you lose the spine, it's always difficult to replace. 

As for leaders, too much emphasis is placed on Leadership. It's over-hyped. To be successful you need good followers. As Max Depree said: "The leader only achieves their objective by permission of the followers".

Light-hearted look at followership:

No Gsus the fact some are reacting like rag fans wanting the manager sacked  because arrogance says we don't get the result that big teams should get after all a win is rightfully ours. We earned those title wins by being better than the opposition not by being lucky. That statement really pisses me off. NO ONE handed us the title we won it fair & square either by scoring more goals than our rival including 6 in their own back yard or by 2 points over Liverpool because we lost or drew less than them. That whole season we were playing catch up by having games in hand, we hung on to the leaders shirt tales all the way & then when the pointy end of the season was upon us we were in a position to take advantage.

We fail in Europe not because we have had difficult groups or we get the # 1 or 2 ranked team, & only once have we failed to get out of a group by poor performances which was our 2nd season. Whilst I am sure pep would be an improvement on Pel I don't think the list after that would be very long. The moany one maybe but no I don't want him near the club because of the headlines he creates which would damage the clubs standing.

What's wrong with Zabba is he still injured?

I guess you mean me, but I've not changed my stance in 12 months, I wanted him sacked then and I want him sacked now.  He will cost us again this year.  We go behind and it's game over.  No middle ground, we lose.  Go back over games in the past year and see.  A manager has to be able to change this.  Ours simply can't.   Honestly Fat Sam is available ......   It is that bad with this chump in charge.

But it's just banter and we are all entitled to our opinions.

I don't know about sacking him, but there's certainly something about him that's not right imo....and the CL debacle just emphasizes that.

The loss to West Ham was poor, but we dominated all aspects of that game and i guess you can say we were unlucky. The Spuds game however is a different kettle o fish, despite having a few players missing we shouldn't be conceding 4 goals after leading and being in complete control....we seemed to capitulate like teams have done in the past against us and that's a worry.

Another thing i found a tad annoying was Little Joe being on the bench. If he's not 100% fit, he shouldn't be there....Richard Wright should have been. If he's fit enough to be on the bench, he should be starting....end of.

After Willy's performance, I'd be tempted to start with Wrighty...

Oz no one has acted like rag fans on here. I wanted him out since the start of last year and i was open by the end of last season. In my humble opunion they guy is just not goof enough for this team and you can't change that. I have analysed everygame and this is not a knee jerk reaction although the bad results may have triggered somthing!

On here everyone is just asking for sound tactics and a fight not results. When things dont go our way MP is not a game changer...give examples prove me wrong.

I see there is a lot of noise in the press this morning about MP blowing his top, about bloody time!

I have always thought that teams reflect their managers personality, you only have to look at Chelsea and the way they play (Maureen is an arrogant git and his teams play like arrogant gits).

We play with a lot of calm composure and flair but no passion or guts, just like MP. So lets hope he now takes this new found attitude in to the training sessions and gives them hell

Hear hear Nijinsky

How did we get those 11 wins on the bounce? The players? The manager? Bit of  both? 
We lacked fight and seemed clueless. The finger needs to be pointed somewhere. 
We were unlucky against west ham. Spurs, unlucky again with the offsides but clueless and gutless afterwards. That's not good enough. Juventus, we were naïve and a bit shitty with the goals. 
We can't have a few injuries and then turn out crap.

We have a manager who has no proactive management skills whatsoever. It didn't need a Shankly or a Clough to know that Fernando and Fernandinho,coupled with a left back not interested in defending,needed changing around long before Spurs drew level,the warning signs had been there for 20 mins 
But Pellegrini doesn't ever seem capable of making changes before it bites us on the arse
The only and I mean only proactive management i can recall from him was when he switched it round at half time v Watford and it sticks in the memory because it was such an isolated event.

sorry gsus & this is not aimed at you specifically but these past few months/ years, the more success we have the more arrogant our fans are becoming the expectancy to graft for a result appears in some quarters to be dwindling there is an attitude that says it is our divine right to win those games. Now whether or not that comes from our new found fans or not is up for debate as an old die hard from the 60's I still have that heir of cityitis in me that will never ever leave. We all hate to see the team lose but from what I saw of the game on Saturday is at this current moment is our ability to find the back of the net consistently. How many chances do we need to score 1 goal. against West Ham it was 27, against Spurs it was 13 we could have been 3 up at least before they got their 1st albeit dubious goal.

we are creating but not finishing, Sadly paul I don't think we have much choice with Kolarov as Clichy is still injured & we do not have another left back, or did not on the bench unless otamendi can slot in there. I heard he played full back for Argentina but think that was right back.

Too right pplf... the sign were there fir all of us. We could all sense it but the man in charge...

Oz I hear what your saying about Cityitis having been a fan since my first game in 57. But why should we just accept this level of performance from one of the most expensive squads ever assembled, the shots to goals ratio you quoted is unacceptable and not just to our new found fans but to me an old fart who has enjoyed both good and bad times. To use current expression we raised the bar of expectation when we won the lottery.

When we went through some tough times, if we could see our players giving it their all but just not being good enough, that's was acceptable. We've had some bad times. We've had some humiliating times. Reading that Stockport's league record against us is played 6, won 3, drew 2 and lost 1 is bad times. Watching Luton turn us over at our place to send us down is bad times. We've got better players now. Much better players. Better players than Spurs. Much better players than Spurs. So we shouldn't be so abject. Time and time again we've looked devoid of spirit and ideas. Fight to the end my arse.

No offence taken Oz.

I can say I was happier when we did not have the lottery! I understand that some new fans can be unreasonable and tgat is not my concern... we cant control that.... but as someone who hase followed the city for 30 years i dont think i am.

As Nij says... why should we put up with mediocre manager when we have top players? All I ask is some sanity with the tactics and some fight from our players! Is it too much to ask!!

You know what? It's great to be away when we are playing shit!!

I suggest a break away from the calamity that's become Man City - it's cathartic. 

I'm with you mate, glad I'm away while the team are imploding. It's hard to see us go from such a great start, setting club records to complete let downs in a 2 week period. At least I can drown my sorrows in warm sunshine, currently in Vegas before heading to NY on Wednesday.

Question: how many times did city let a 2 goal lead slip last season?
Question: when was the last time we came back from being behind to win a game?

City haven't let a 2-goal lead slip this season

I'm sure we have since, but we came from behind to beat Bayern last season.....but that was nearly 11mths ago.

in a nutshell, defeat to West Ham, acceptable as we pummeled them, they defended for their lives and got the victory.. players put the effort in, just sometimes the defending team wins.

Defeat to Spuds, after opening 20 minutes just no effort and we were the worst team in the second half by some margin.

Last time we came back from behind to win, was FA cup against Wednesday. Last league game was last December against Sunderland. Since that Sunderland game, we lost 8 games for the remainder of that season. I'm sure some were without much fight. Arsenal at home. Boro at home. Barca at home (acceptable opponents, but didn't we play 442?). Liverpool away. Burnley away. Barca away (acceptable). Palace away. Utd away. After Wednesday in the cup, we lost 8 games, winning 4 and drawing 3 before we went on that run of winning the last 6 games. In isolation, that run was absolutely shocking. Even with those 6 wins on the bounce, we'd have a record of 10 wins, 3 draws and 8 losses. That's not the record of champions and we were far from champions last season.

Against Juve I say we missed too many chances and were naive at the back with Otamendi looking clumsy. In fact, ever since we lost Kompany, we've lost some belief and composure.

West Ham, as has been said, we battered but we'd already given them a two goal start.

Sunderland are just really really poor. Spurs was abject in the 2nd half.

We've all seen some fight and discipline in the first few games, why has it all gone to pot now?