I'm worried about what i'm seeing

MP..............from the first 20 minutes, we've been given a masterclass in MF......and what have you done?

Fuck all until 70th minute and 3-0 down.

Joe Hart......I do feel sorry for him, but sorry won't win trophies....time he goes away, work on whatever is making him a liability and then maybe win his place back.

Bayern.....Barca with strength.....fantastic work ethic, press high, one DFM, not 2........

ARE YOU WATCHING MP?

I've never seen such a footballing embarrassment for years.............

I'm not worried, give him time. 

I agree with the Hart point - give him a bit of a boost. He's probably at rock bottom but it might be the push he needs. Bayern have just been brilliant, let's not go overboard though.

Jordan wrote:I'm not worried, give him time. 

I agree with the Hart point - give him a bit of a boost. He's probably at rock bottom but it might be the push he needs. Bayern have just been brilliant, let's not go overboard though.

What's overboard about what I said?

Hart you agreed with.

....................................................didn't you post this?

I can't argue with the team selection, but something should have been changed very quickly. 5 in midfield should have been a must after 20 minutes. 

Just simply outclassed today.

.....................................................


MP should've seen after 20 minutes we were completely overrun in MF, but didn't even make a change at half time......and waited until we were 3-0 down to make it FFS.

When he did, and we played one up front with a 5 man MF like Bayern, we created chances and scored and hit the cross bar.

It doesn't take a genius......

I said Bayern were superb, but when it came to tactics, Pep just completely out-thought MP, knowing that when we have Nasri on the pitch, he's somehow drawn towards the half way circle...and forgets about any player out wide.....so they exploited Clichy with 2 players every time.....poor management tonight IMO.

Great goal by Negredo...shows Dzeko how to chase, tackle, head and give effort for the team.

Bizarre we could have got something from that though, 2 great chances at end.

Joe Hart may be rock bottom but no time for sentiment now he's made far too many mistakes. Time to give pants a chance.

Negredo must also be first on team sheet now, surely MP can see that. But judging by that game maybe not.

Negredo scored a great goal but don't forget about the one he missed and some mislaid passes.

I didn't see the 1st half so can't compare against Dzeko (who seems to have been bollocks but I always question the service).

Top teams don't need 2 DMs, their midfield work their bollocks off to track back, and quickly.

We were wanky poo in defence from what I saw and Hart has to be dropped. What's the point of keeping 4 or 5 cleans sheets against poor opposition when your cock ups cost us points or games???

Pants deserves his chance.

Milner worked hard when he came on and Silva had the control and guile to create so positives there.

Blue, I wasn't referring to your post, I just meant the commentators, and future posts. Something should have been changed at 20 minutes definitely, but I'm hoping he isn't like Mancini and will learn from his mistakes. 

We probably shouldn't have played with two strikers tonight but his team is the one we all said he should go with. Lesson learnt tonight.

Thank F..CK you didn't see it.......all over the place, no effort, chasing shadows, wrong tactics, wrong formation.........just wrong.

Jordan wrote:Blue, I wasn't referring to your post, I just meant the commentators, and future posts. Something should have been changed at 20 minutes definitely, but I'm hoping he isn't like Mancini and will learn from his mistakes. 

We probably shouldn't have played with two strikers tonight but his team is the one we all said he should go with. Lesson learnt tonight.

I agree with you......but isn't he the Engineer? You would have thought at 1-0 at half time, he would have said "thank fuck for that"......lets change it?

No, he stuck with the useless Nasri and Dzeko for 25 minutes, by which time we were 3-0 down.

Just poor managerially.

It took us several years after we got the money for us to start to find our feet in the premier league. It was a slow increase in our consistency and level of performance.

From the time Frank bought us, wasn't it 5 years for us to win the league? I'd say we need 5 years to be competitive in the CL though it really should be sooner.

We cannot have our defenders, and some midfielders, just booting the ball around. And get some hard work done on the fitness ground. I want our players to work as hard as Dortmund and Bayern do.

Well, that was a disappointing way to blow the thick end of fifty quid...  Bayern gave us a masterclass in the quality we need, but we didn't half make it easy for them.

Hart was woeful, the defence weren't sure what sort of defending to do, we were outnumbered in midfield and Dzeko barely got into the game.  The ref wasn't great in the first half, but we can hardly blame him for the shocking performance.

We had a decent start, but their early goal (why oh why did Hart only reach with one hand?) let them settle and we never got back into it, and very nearly let them get further ahead.  Second half started strongly, but we gave it away in midfield twice and they punished us.  Once we changed it to a 4-5-1, we started to control midfield a bit more, but it needed doing at half time.

Richards wasn't ready at all.  Clichy I thought did okay, but he was overrun by Bayern.  Fernandinho was Yaya's shadow for long periods of the game and both of them were sloppy.  Navas never made a run, Nasri faded out of the game and Aguero was largely absent.  In fact, for me, the only players who come out of it unscathed are Silva and Milner, who gave us some sorely needed attacking options.

Pants should start the next game and Richards, sad to say, shouldn't go near a CL game until he's had some more playing time.

Engineer my arse !
Richards was nowhere near ready to be put up against possibly the best team in the world right now. The MF was simply overrun in the 1st half & we were 3 down b4 anything was done about it
Dzeko is not half the striker Negredo is as I keep saying !
Hart - FFS Manuel!. He's making at least 1 clanger per game. It's well overdue to give him a rest and bring Pants in
We were completely dicked and it could have been a lot more. I was worried b4 the game and am now very worried for the Everton game

On the other hand Bayern are in a different league to most teams in Europe and I still expect us to qualify in second as BM should stuff the other 2 teams home & away also

The commentator who was with GaryNeville said,and I quote,this was the worst display ever by an English team in the CL,and he was right.Also to try and justify Joe Harts display is rubbish.He is an International goalkeeper of experience,and to fail to push two shots past the post instead of into the net is abysmal.We did not start playing until Silva and Milner came on.MP has got to start delivering soon or we will be in dire trouble:) 

Dawg,
you didn't need to see the 1st half to know how Dzeko did......you can make an educated guess.

Despite getting totally outclassed last night and deservedly getting beat, if you analyze Bayerns goals......we contributed to all 3.
1st. Harts piss poor attempt at a save from a 25yrder.
2nd. a 40yd cross field pass that Clichy, for some reason still unknown to me, decided to leave (and not follow) for their forward all on his own to run clear and score.
3rd Fernandinho loses the ball in the centre circle and Robben beats Hart at his near post.

As I said, i'm not taking anything away Bayerns win here, i'm just saying we contributed to our own downfall.

On the game, MP still has a lot to learn imo, it worries me thinking about how naïve/stubborn he was about not changing things last night. I don't really want to go down the Mancini route here, but wasn't MP brought in because of his "expertise and European pedigree"?
Graeme Souness made a great point last night. "MP could have started with 5 up front and still wouldn't have scored because you have to get hold of the ball first......and that's something City just couldn't do".
Now to me, that's basic management and not something that's learnt by managing in Europe for god knows how long.

I think we all thought the team selected was OK for last night, however, they set up in a 4-1-4-1 formation which completely outnumbered our MF.

That should have been addressed after 15 minutes, dropping Nasri inside (though that's what he did all night anyway!!) and moving Aguero out to the left to help out.

MP didn't he just sat there and watched the brilliant movement of Muller, who just pulled out to the left and right wing meaning more space through the middle for Robben, Lahm, Rafinho, Kroos.....it was comical at times watching Nasri in the centre circle and Clichy having to mark 2 players...with Nasri jogging back - example, watch Robben's goal........Nasri was just like Valencia against us in the derby.

I've not seen a team pass the ball that quickly and accurately for a long time, and they were fitter and stronger than us, which is unusual.

As mentioned, they were a very very good side last night, however, MP didn't do anything for 70 minutes....and that's not acceptable.

As Shaken said, 2 sloppy mistakes from Hart and Clichy trying to play offside gifted them 3 goals.

TMG wrote:On the other hand Bayern are in a different league to most teams in Europe and I still expect us to qualify in second as BM should stuff the other 2 teams home & away also

I'm sure they will, but that won't necessarily help us.  CSKA aren't in competition with BM, they're fighting against us and they've already got the pot advantage.  We need 4 points minimum from the next two games if we're going to remain in control of our destiny in this league, otherwise we'll be looking for Plzen to do us a favour in the last match.

OK, my thoughts on last night.

Ultimately, it came down to four things for me.

1. Hart is completely devoid of confidence, if time on the bench will help sort that, then it needs to happen.

2. Changing the fullbacks was a bad idea, it was not the sort of game to put Richards and Clichy in with their lack of match practice.

3. Pellegrini seriously screwed up with our starting formation and not changing it until the 70th minute

4. Dzeko and Nastasic were awful.  

The way Bayern set up, they effectively had no striker (which is why, for all their dominance, they didn't actually create that many clear cut chances and their goals came from poor errors from us) and at times, it was a 3-7-0 formation.

There is no blame on yaya or fernandinho for me, they did not have a chance, it was essentially 5 against 2 at times. In his post match interview, he said that it was due to Silva not being fit enough to play for more than 20 minutes. That's no excuse for me, he could have moved Aguero to the left and Nasri centrally.

Dzeko offered absolutely nothing in tracking back to assist, so Lahm was given free reign at the base of the midfield as Aguero couldn't do it all by himself. Nastasic looked out of his depth for me, I know he had a great season last year, but I think our expectations of him are higher than they should be, I think we sometimes forget how young and raw he actually still is.

Having said all that, if Boateng hadn't brought Toure down and he would have gone on to score, it could have been 2-3 with five minutes to go, it would have been a travesty of justice but shows that they were vulnerable. As good as Bayern were, if we had been setup tactically right, that could have been a very different game.

The biggest worry for me is the squad we have is suited to a 442 this year with four out and out strikers. We simply cannot stick to that formation in every game, we need the capacity to change it. I didn't realise at the time, but I think missing out on Isco could really hurt us, as I get now why Pellegrini wanted him so much.

It is still very early days and I hope Pellegrini is learning from this. Individual defensive errors cannot be an excuse for much longer though, that is three games already this year where we have conceded three goals. There are certain players that I don't think suit the system he is trying to play. He needs to realise that quickly and adapt.

I still have faith in him  though, it is far too soon to be too critical. Particularly in the league though, he needs to learn and quickly, I think he has been slightly lucky with the start Moyes has had at United in terms of taking the pressure off. Saturday is a big big game for us.

meltonblue wrote:
2. Changing the fullbacks was a bad idea, it was not the sort of game to put Richards and Clichy in with their lack of match practice.

I can only presume he wanted to counteract Robben and Riberys pace.....and tbh I can understand that logic.
If Kolarov and Zab had played and got continually skinned, would we not have all moaned at MP for not putting Richards and Clichy in?

Potentially, he could have used the valid excuse that the other two weren't match fit though.

I really don't want to blame Clichy and Richards for getting skinned by Ribery and Robben too much. Yes, Clichy made an error of judgement which cost us a goal against a world class striker, but the amount of times that both FB's were up against 2 BM players, and then with 3 BM MF's in the middle and open for an easy pass, was ridiculous.

As I mentioned earlier, Muller just kept pulling out wide onto either Clichy or Micah and then 2 BM players immediately go and assist him.......with nobody tracking back with them, therefore, they continually won 90% of the second balls and then looked to penetrate  our defence.

This was a tactical move by Pep as he could clearly see how narrow we were in MF and outnumbered......as BM don't normally play the big ball up to their strikers - MP should have reacted quicker to it, but didn't and therein lay the problem for 70 minutes.

Even Micah after the game said that from the off, they just overrun us in MF......then why not change??

It beggared belief that a manager of his supposed technical expertise did nothing.

He clearly wanted a physical presence and Micah did play last week against Wigan, so there's no excuse for his fitness being poor, he was just outnumbered.

As for Clichy, he mustn't have been 100% with no games for 3 weeks, however, can you imagine what Robben would've done to Kolorov??? Doesn't bare thinking about.

Have to agree - Dzeko, what is wrong with him? His touch was awful again, his work-ethic was back to his usual 50%......he surely cannot play ahead of Negredo who chased everything and finished superbly for his goal.

Milner must be rubbing his hands now after another abject display by Nasri and Silva is a must for Saturday, therefore, that means dropping Fernandhino.

I agree with Melton's comments on Nasty - his positioning was poor last night and his distribution even poorer - maybe Lescott needs to come back and be given another chance.

As for Hart..........well, it's a tough one, but I just can't see him dropping him.

For me, last night was in a large part, down to MP's tactics which meant we were under pressure for most of the game, as when he did make the changes, we could easily have got a point which would've been unjust.

"For me, last night was in a large part, down to MP's tactics which meant we were under pressure for most of the game, as when he did make the changes, we could easily have got a point which would've been unjust."

Absolutely agree.

the owners or their representative that were watching the game last night will not have been happy at just how big the gulf was between us and the European Champions. After all the money that they have pumped into the club since they took over we were like a conference team playing in the FA cup against a PL team, it really was embarrassing watching our players run around in circles as 4 or 5 Bayern players fizzed the ball about them like they weren't there.
Even Mancini would have realised that we needed to bring off Dzeko and go to one up and bring on an extra midfielder to combat their dominance in the middle of the park.
Players like Nasri, Navas and Fernandinho were not supporting the full backs who were unfit and getting overrun time and again. Why did the engineer not fix this before the 70th minute?
I know that we are all saying more or less the same things here but if we all saw it why did he not?

One of the problems as I see it is the Spanish fellas at the top. They are ex Barca and they are trying to mirror Barca with their academy and tippy tappy football.

The big problem is that Barca's style is becoming yesterday's news. The game has moved on with Bayern and Dortmund setting the agenda. They go for possession football but with more of a forward thrust.

Barca's style still gives them a good chance of winning most games but it can be blunted by good defending. Even Bayern can be nullified by top defending as was shown by Chelsea last year.

I think our style will be good enough for us to win domestic titles but not European ones. Not in the short terms anyway.

TBF Dawg, you only have to go back a few games to the derby. We played possession football with forward thrust....now we're not going to replicate that type of performance each week, but MP has to give the players at least a chance to get into the game by selecting the right formation.

We were crying out for Mr Tevez in a game like that.  Shame the players we still have don't have his industry.

Thought about it all day during a drive to Leicester and back and while Joe Hart seriously has to be dropped we were simply beaten by a better team.   Lets just hope we learn from it, however we keep saying that every game with MP.

Draw a line under this one for now and move onto how we think MP will setup for our bogey team on Saturday.  He seriously needs to make a statement in that one.

blisteringblue wrote:We were crying out for Mr Tevez in a game like that.  Shame the players we still have don't have his industry.

Thought about it all day during a drive to Leicester and back and while Joe Hart seriously has to be dropped we were simply beaten by a better team.   Lets just hope we learn from it, however we keep saying that every game with MP.

Draw a line under this one for now and move onto how we think MP will setup for our bogey team on Saturday.  He seriously needs to make a statement in that one.

blue, even Tevez would struggle to do anything meaningfull without a ball!!