Engineer ! My arse

First topic message reminder :

Couldn't engineer his way out of a paper bag 

If this carries on much longer, ultimately won't be far away. It's no use crowing about getting through the group stages of the CL (in the weakest group we've ever been in) and then bollocksing up the league. Stoke maybe should have beaten us. Hull had two glorious chances to score and could have beaten us. Newcastle were shit when they played us as were Utd. Chelsea aren't pulling up trees either. Norwich were all over the place and West Ham are at the bottom.

Let's be honest here, we've not looked good enough most of the season.

Anyone that wants to argue, go and watch the Bayern highlights...

Bayern made Barca look bad last season, we could of got something out of that game but for 2 Joe Hart mistakes. Ok would of clouded over a bad performance because they was the better side until we brought on Silva.
I think M.P needs time to clear out who he wants and bring in his own... January will/should tell us what he's about and who he can attract?? IMO Dzeko, Richards, Kolorov, Garcia, Rodwell and Lescott should be replaced for starters. Thing is will he have enough time and backing with recents results?

Come on Belly, Bayern could have scored 10. Hart's mistake started the beating, but we escaped with only 3 goals against us.

It's not just about shipping out players and buying new players. There is a weakness when teams attack us, especially on the break.

Bring back Mancini      

The sad thing is Den, I was thinking how many points would Bobby have had out of the games we played so far and I think it would be more than we have now. We'd have the same home record but would not have let in 3 goals against Villa and Cardiff for starters. We may not have won many more away games, but I'm sure we wouldn't have lost 4, maybe 2 tops. I reckon we'd be 1st or 2nd.

After reading the shinanigans of last nights reports i thought i might stoke the fire again. 

We'd definately be a damn sight higher, that's for sure Dawg.

No no no!

I don't want Bobby back. I want this guy to succeed, it may just take a little more time than I expected. Succeed doesn't mean winning the title every season, but it also doesn't mean losing 4 out of your first 6 away matches against poor opposition.

We've brought in a new manager and subsequently been hit with our worst run of injuries to key players since we were taken over by Frank.  We've lost a few matches on the road and suddenly it's all doom and gloom.

We're only six points off the top, with 27 matches remaining.  Yes, we may be 8th, but Newcastle are 10th and only 8 points from the top, the league is really compressed at the moment and a couple of results either way and it all changes.

And we're through to the next round of the CL.  Okay, so it's not as tough a group as we've had previously, but I'd say it's still not as easy as the one the rags have got and they've still not got through their group yet.  And with two wins from away games, too.

This is just teething issues.  I'm not going to start worrying about this.

I'm a little worried because it's the same thing over and over again.

Do you think Spuds will come to our place and attack us? They'll stick 9 men behind the ball and hit us on the break. We're stronger at home against this system but we can't win every game at home can we?

If we don't win against Spurs then we should be properly worried.

I agree Dawg....and that was my point about possession...it means nothing having 75% of the ball.....and the opposition score with 25% of it.

It's the set-up of the team and tactics which is disappointing. If you keep the ball and continually pile forward at teams like Sunderland...they will just sit back and put 9 behind the ball. If so, then a change needs to be made in personnel and tactics.....it may mean going 3 at the back and adding Dzeko up front with Negredo and Aguero and getting the ball into the box. Ugly, but sometimes necessary. Or draw them out by sitting a little deeper....something!

In addition.....chopping and changing the defence, surely cannot help stability at the back.

I also agree that in some of those away games, we didn't play particularly well - Cardiff and Stoke...Hull we weren't great.

I don't know....it's not good.

Melton mentioned FFP....I'm still confused how Chelsea get around it.....Falcao now on Jose's radar for Jan....another £60m.

blueboy wrote:I agree Dawg....and that was my point about possession...it means nothing having 75% of the ball.....and the opposition score with 25% of it.

I'm definately not goin back reading through everything, but with regards the above, we still had 24 shots and 14 corners to their 4 shots and 0 corners. The fact that of those 24 shots only having 4 on target may have something to do with the final score.

Sure it was a poor overall performance but we still can't say we didn't have enough chances to win the game......the frustration from all this is we didn't.

Aren't we shit from corners?

Yes, we are.

As much as I dislike criticising Silva, he just can't take a corner to save his life.  He rarely gets it past the first man.  Nasri and Milner are better and can get the ball into a good place to score from, but then we've got nobody willing to get on the end of them, because we usually rely on Richards or Lescott to get to them and neither are getting games lately.

We definitely need some practice taking corners.

shakencity wrote:

blueboy wrote:I agree Dawg....and that was my point about possession...it means nothing having 75% of the ball.....and the opposition score with 25% of it.

I'm definately not goin back reading through everything, but with regards the above, we still had 24 shots and 14 corners to their 4 shots and 0 corners. The fact that of those 24 shots only having 4 on target may have something to do with the final score.

Sure it was a poor overall performance but we still can't say we didn't have enough chances to win the game......the frustration from all this is we didn't.

Would the 4 on target be the fact they were blocked by 8 defenders in the box? Like I said, I didn't watch the whole game....just saw the highlights on the mcfc website...and that was pretty much one sided viewing.

I suppose the shots can be misleading as well.....not many looked like clear, clear chances....more of a shoot in desperation. Saw Kolo's screamer...which on another day, may have broke the back of the net...and Aguero should have buried his header...but apart from that, I can't remember too many clear cut chances.....I may be wrong.

There weren't too many clear cut chances. Sunderland scoring first was always going to be difficult as even with a change of system, there was no way they were going to be drawn out. I do feel a bit sorry for Pellegrini in that regard, if the ref had given the foul against Milner and sent Larsson off then it probably would have been a very different result.

That is no excuse though, we still need to find a way of getting past these teams. For me, I like the fact that we are playing a high press and see that as the future model we will employ. We have a few players that don't suit that model though and it shows. Toure on his day is immense, but without the ball and playing two in midfield, we really are exposed in the middle when he doesn't have Fernandinho or Barry alongside him. His inability to press was part of the reason Barca moved him on.

I still see this as a long term change though. At the start of the season, I said on ja606 that I see the transition we are going through to be equally big as the one United are, but for different reasons. We are completely changing our style of play, something they aren't at all. That is far harder to do than just one or two personnel and takes time.

There is still a lot to remain positive about though. Despite how shaky the defence is, we are still conceding the fewest shots on goal than any other team in the PL. That to me says that we are controlling games but allowing the opposition one or two very easy chances every game. That is a lot easier thing to remedy than if we were under the kosh every game.

I completely get the disillusionment at the moment, a lot of it for me is down to the communication that came out of the club in the summer, rather than temper expectation, they increased it and I think that was the wrong thing to do, for this season at least. Pellegrini said about the 5 trophies in 5 years that that might not mean any for the first year, but more in a longer timeframe, but that got glossed over in favour of the "if we don't win anything, it's not good enough" headlines that came out.

I still look back to his time at Madrid though. He had the exact same issues at the start of his tenure with them as he changed their style of play and when it clicked, they went on a run and amassed a record points score.

If we finish outside of the top 3, then we have underachieved this season. I'm not going to start being overly critical or too questioning until we at least get to January though.

meltonblue wrote:There weren't too many clear cut chances. Sunderland scoring first was always going to be difficult as even with a change of system, there was no way they were going to be drawn out. I do feel a bit sorry for Pellegrini in that regard, if the ref had given the foul against Milner and sent Larsson off then it probably would have been a very different result.

That is no excuse though, we still need to find a way of getting past these teams. For me, I like the fact that we are playing a high press and see that as the future model we will employ. We have a few players that don't suit that model though and it shows. Toure on his day is immense, but without the ball and playing two in midfield, we really are exposed in the middle when he doesn't have Fernandinho or Barry alongside him. His inability to press was part of the reason Barca moved him on.

I still see this as a long term change though. At the start of the season, I said on ja606 that I see the transition we are going through to be equally big as the one United are, but for different reasons. We are completely changing our style of play, something they aren't at all. That is far harder to do than just one or two personnel and takes time.

There is still a lot to remain positive about though. Despite how shaky the defence is, we are still conceding the fewest shots on goal than any other team in the PL. That to me says that we are controlling games but allowing the opposition one or two very easy chances every game. That is a lot easier thing to remedy than if we were under the kosh every game.

I completely get the disillusionment at the moment, a lot of it for me is down to the communication that came out of the club in the summer, rather than temper expectation, they increased it and I think that was the wrong thing to do, for this season at least. Pellegrini said about the 5 trophies in 5 years that that might not mean any for the first year, but more in a longer timeframe, but that got glossed over in favour of the "if we don't win anything, it's not good enough" headlines that came out.

I still look back to his time at Madrid though. He had the exact same issues at the start of his tenure with them as he changed their style of play and when it clicked, they went on a run and amassed a record points score.

If we finish outside of the top 3, then we have underachieved this season. I'm not going to start being overly critical or too questioning until we at least get to January though.

Some fair points there Melton. I think the whole 5 trophies in 5 years - new style of attacking football comments...hyped it a little.....the BM game though for me, as good as they were - MP sat there just like Mancini, and did nothing until it was too late....and for all of his 'engineer' title...I thought that was a little disturbing, especially after his CL experience, which he was brought in for it seems.

One thing - watching the highlights, I didn't see Milner complaining too much after the 'foul' on him..he just seemed to stay on his knees with his head bowed after they scored....and again, not sure, but what I saw as the players walked off at half-time, didn't see any players having a go at the ref.

mcfc never showed the tackle...so can't comment on it. May have to watch the whole game as I recorded it.

Have to be honest with the Milner foul blueboy, I though he went down too easily and was looking for the foul , something he does a bit too often for me. They are normally still given though.

The Bayern game, I agree. The annoying thing with that was we looked so much better when Silva came on and could have gone into the last five minutes at 3-2. He said afterwards his hands were tied due to silva coming back from injury, he still could have shored up the midfield though.

meltonblue wrote:Have to be honest with the Milner foul blueboy, I though he went down too easily and was looking for the foul , something he does a bit too often for me. They are normally still given though.

The Bayern game, I agree. The annoying thing with that was we looked so much better when Silva came on and could have gone into the last five minutes at 3-2. He said afterwards his hands were tied due to silva coming back from injury, he still could have shored up the midfield though.

Agree - we suddenly came to life with a less defensive formation....all if's and but's i guess.

I thought Bardsley just wanted the ball more than Milner,not seen a replay but that's how it looked from the cloud view
I feel we are fortunate to still be involved in talk about the title as we could well have been 10 or more points behind Utd or Chelsea if they had started well.
Don't for a minute think we'll win it this year but we need to see some sort of understanding from the squad that they have some direction. Certainly don't want to hear anymore nonsense from Pellegrini about how unlucky we've been away with regards possession and shots on target.We deservedly lost at Cardiff and Sunderland no matter what the stats say.
The chopping and changing is one of the real issues,if we are trying to bed in a new system then keep as many playing together as injuries permit so they get acclimatised with it.
Case on point was the Newcastle cup game,if Boyata isn't in any long term plans then why play him,it's far more important for a regular back 4 to get used to the high line in a competitive situation than on the training ground
Very underwhelmed with it all so far,just hope we start to see some basic understanding soon

Paulpowersleftfoot wrote:I thought Bardsley just wanted the ball more than Milner,not seen a replay but that's how it looked from the cloud view
I feel we are fortunate to still be involved in talk about the title as we could well have been 10 or more points behind Utd or Chelsea if they had started well.
Don't for a minute think we'll win it this year but we need to see some sort of understanding from the squad that they have some direction. Certainly don't want to hear anymore nonsense from Pellegrini about how unlucky we've been away with regards possession and shots on target.We deservedly lost at Cardiff and Sunderland no matter what the stats say.
The chopping and changing is one of the real issues,if we are trying to bed in a new system then keep as many playing together as injuries permit so they get acclimatised with it.
Case on point was the Newcastle cup game,if Boyata isn't in any long term plans then why play him,it's far more important for a regular back 4 to get used to the high line in a competitive situation than on the training ground
Very underwhelmed with it all so far,just hope we start to see some basic understanding soon

Again...can't argue with any of that. There's only 2 things that concern me....the constant switching around of defence - and then we keep conceding and the argument is we were the better team...if this was a one-off game, fair enough....but it's the same old comments made after another defeat....and still the same changes will be made in the future.

The other is the way we play away from home.

I don't know what the answer is - as you would expect away teams to set up like Sunderland did when we play at home.....

I'm still of the opinion, that if he wants to play a high pressing line - do away with 2 DMF's. Play a 4-1-3-2.

I think playing Fernandinho alongside Yaya does that blueboy, he's capable of getting forward and playing some very good balls himself (I actually think they are both very similar players).

I just don't think our squad depth is as good as some think it is, just one or two first teamers out and we seem to struggle.

meltonblue wrote:I think playing Fernandinho alongside Yaya does that blueboy, he's capable of getting forward and playing some very good balls himself (I actually think they are both very similar players).

I just don't think our squad depth is as good as some think it is, just one or two first teamers out and we seem to struggle.

I think that's true when we are at home....away though, as mentioned by somebody else, I just don;t think Yaya can press players like Fernandinho, Milner or Rodwell.

Therefore, he get's bypassed too easily and struggles to get back.

That's why I think if we played one sitting - i.e. Fernadinho/Rodwell/Milner (not Garcia!!)...Yaya can be further up the pitch, at least making it a bit more difficult and supporting others in attack. At least he would give us more height in the box for any crosses.

At home....you're right, I think they both take turns going forward as he have so much possession and seem to play with a greater freedom.